This made me kinda sad today...

[One Brow]

Dead fetuses are dead. How do you abort them?

So, your point is entirely semantic? OK, what's your term for the procedure to remove an antepartum stillbirth?

I’m not certain you know much about comparative risks in pregnancy. When you reach the third trimester, you’re delivering a child — one way or another. Performing an abortion before delivering that child adds more risk. There are many situations that call for induction of delivery — none of those are made safer by termination of pregnancy followed by induction/c-section.

The right has a fantasy scenario of needing armor-piercing ammunition in the event that a government is seizing upon them. They feel legislation should allow this because this fantasy scenario is an everyday occurrence. This is the left’s fantasy scenario because it doesn’t really exist.

I agree that abortions that late in the pregnancy are extremely rare.

 

[infection]

So, your point is entirely semantic? OK, what's your term for the procedure to remove an antepartum stillbirth?

I don’t think you realize how your answer is imbedded in all of your questions. You don’t pass an abortion law to be able to remove a dead fetus because that’s not an abortion. You don’t perform an ‘abortion’ on a dead fetus in the third trimester because the way you get that out is through vaginal delivery or c-section, and what’s dead is dead. You’re, quite literally, suggesting beating the proverbial dead horse prior to delivering it.

 

[One Brow]

I don’t think you realize how your answer is imbedded in all of your questions. You don’t pass an abortion law to be able to remove a dead fetus because that’s not an abortion. You don’t perform an ‘abortion’ on a dead fetus in the third trimester because the way you get that out is through vaginal delivery or c-section, and what’s dead is dead. You’re, quite literally, suggesting beating the proverbial dead horse prior to delivering it.

You didn't answer my question. What is the term you think should be used for the removal of a dead fetus from a uterus?

Now, if you meant that you don't perform a dilation and extraction, or any sort of curettage, I agree none of those procedure seem reasonable. However, I presume there is some sort of procedure you do perform, and that it has some sort of name. What do you call it?

 

[infection]

You didn't answer my question. What is the term you think should be used for the removal of a dead fetus from a uterus?

Now, if you meant that you don't perform a dilation and extraction, or any sort of curettage, I agree none of those procedure seem reasonable. However, I presume there is some sort of procedure you do perform, and that it has some sort of name. What do you call it?

It’s either called an induction of labor or a c-section, depending on which you do. You don’t leave a dead fetus in the mother in the third trimester. That’s not illegal, nor has it ever been.

 

[Hotdog]

I don’t think you realize how your answer is imbedded in all of your questions. You don’t pass an abortion law to be able to remove a dead fetus because that’s not an abortion. You don’t perform an ‘abortion’ on a dead fetus in the third trimester because the way you get that out is through vaginal delivery or c-section, and what’s dead is dead. You’re, quite literally, suggesting beating the proverbial dead horse prior to delivering it.

Logic doesn't mix with his dogma. Kind of like oil and water. His dogma just rises to the top, floats around, and is practically impossible to remove.

 

[infection]

Getting back to a few posts I was wanting to respond to. Can't even find most of them now. Anyway.

No, he doesn't have to move. Why wouldn't he move? Is the simple politeness of making way too much to ask?

The same thing that gives Sandman the right to not move. Ask yourself why you are assuming Sandman has rights here that should not be questioned, and in the same post asking from where Phillips gets his rights.

Then, ask me again about what white privilege is.

This is interesting. Let's maybe flip the scenario a little bit:

Sandman is at this rally and he sees increased tension from the Black Hebrew Israelites and the Native Americans. Among some of the many vile things being tossed at the Native Americans from the Black Hebrew Israelites, he perhaps hears some of the following:

- A young Native American engages with the Black Hebrew Israelites and is told “You’re out of order. Where’s your husband? Where’s your husband? Let me speak to him.” Followed by another saying “You see this? This is the problem, Israel. It’s always our women coming up with their loud mouth, thinking they can run and bogart things, thinking they can come and distract things with their loud-*** mouth, because they’re not used to dealing with real men. You think we’re supposed to bow down to your damn emotions when you come around here and run your mouth and distract what we’re doing instead of coming here with order … She’s coming around here being wicked.”

- “You ain’t no child of God. You are the Indian. You are a blue-eyed demon. That’s the last Mohican.”

- “You’re still worshipping totem poles. You out of your mind! You have to repent. You worship the buffalo. You worship the eagle. You worship the phoenix. These are the idols you’ve been worshipping. A damn buffalo ain’t gonna save you. You worship the creations and not the creator … That’s why you’re drunkards in the casinos and the damn plantation.”

- “Dumb-*** [N word]s. Bunch of demons. You’re a bunch of Uncle Tomahawks.”

Now let's pretend Sandman feels this rising tension and decides he wants to intervene to bring some peace. He thinks back to his Christian songs that have historically helped him feel peace, and he starts to sing "I am a child of God," because, you know, he thinks everyone should just have the spirit fall upon them when they hear him singing this. So he starts doing this and then walks into a crowd of Native Americans and continues to sing. He walks right up to Phillips and continues singing, while Phillips stands there awkwardly. Sandman makes no effort to go left, right, or back, and continues singing in his face.

Why wouldn't Phillips be courteous and clear him a path?

I think had that scenario played out, we'd rightfully conclude that Sandman was totally in the wrong, and if he genuinely believed that his song was going to de-escalate tension, that he is naive and that part of this naivete is enabled by blindness to his privilege. Why would a 16 year old white kid feel that he can just walk into a group of Native Americans that have gathered and expect it be their responsibility to move the hell out of his way? Would we not again invoke white privilege?

 

[Stoked]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/27/media/tom-brokaw-nbc-meet-the-press/index.html

Thoughts?

I think he has a point. Even if it is incomplete and poorly stated.

 

[fishonjazz]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/27/media/tom-brokaw-nbc-meet-the-press/index.html

Thoughts?

I think he has a point. Even if it is incomplete and poorly stated.

Ya I think he has a point too. I think that if you live here you should know how to speak English

It's great to have a bilingual people in America but one of those languages you speak should be English imo.

Same goes for if I decided to move to Mexico or Germany or whatever. I think I should learn the language of the country I live in

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Why would any culture accept immigrants into their culture if the immigrants don't want to become a part if the culture they are petitioning to become a part of? That would go against a basic purpose of forming into society.

 

[One Brow]

It’s either called an induction of labor or a c-section, depending on which you do. You don’t leave a dead fetus in the mother in the third trimester. That’s not illegal, nor has it ever been.

So, "abortion" is reserved only when you kill the fetus while removing it; when the fetus is live, and you induce labor or perform a c-section, they are collectively called "births"; but when the fetus is dead, and you induce labor or perform a c-section, there is no collective name? Would it be a stillbirth, or is that only for unprovoked deliveries?

 

[One Brow]

Logic doesn't mix with his dogma. Kind of like oil and water. His dogma just rises to the top, floats around, and is practically impossible to remove.

I'll acknowledge that I confused the notion of non-viable and not alive. My stupidity.

 

[One Brow]

This is interesting. Let's maybe flip the scenario a little bit:

I don't think my response to NPC D4617 invoked the concepts of responsibility, nor of who was right and who was wrong. I just pointed out that he implied one party had the right to move or not, while asking where the other party got their right to move. Do you think your scenario flip changed whether any party should be assumed to have a right, and another party needs to justify having that right? I don't see how it changed that aspect.

 

[One Brow]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/27/media/tom-brokaw-nbc-meet-the-press/index.html

Thoughts?

I think he has a point. Even if it is incomplete and poorly stated.

Ya I think he has a point too. I think that if you live here you should know how to speak English

It's great to have a bilingual people in America but one of those languages you speak should be English imo.

Same goes for if I decided to move to Mexico or Germany or whatever. I think I should learn the language of the country I live in

Why would any culture accept immigrants into their culture if the immigrants don't want to become a part if the culture they are petitioning to become a part of? That would go against a basic purpose of forming into society.

Do you all also agree that cultures change over time? If our culture is slowly becoming more accommodating of Spanish, then I don't think there is much of a point to be made. Also, it's not like Hispanic the immigrants to the US are not a hard-working group. They are just working on other things, like making money.

 

[Stoked]

Do you all also agree that cultures change over time? If our culture is slowly becoming more accommodating of Spanish, then I don't think there is much of a point to be made. Also, it's not like Hispanic the immigrants to the US are not a hard-working group. They are just working on other things, like making money.

There is absolutely a point to be made. It’s a two way street. I meet damn near every day Hispanic immigrants that have been here for years or decades and don’t know English and isolate them selves culturally. They are coming here. And I welcome them. Good. Comeon. We need good, hard working people and families. And more culture is better for us as a nation. But they came here and as such share a fair share of the burden for assimilation.

The reason I said his stance is incomplete is that we have our part to play as well. Again a two way street. I’ll go back to an oft repeated stance of mine. Bilingual education from pre K on. Make kids learn two languages. No reason we can’t. Education is the key. (Surprising how often that’s the case).

 

[fishonjazz]

Do you all also agree that cultures change over time? If our culture is slowly becoming more accommodating of Spanish, then I don't think there is much of a point to be made. Also, it's not like Hispanic the immigrants to the US are not a hard-working group. They are just working on other things, like making money.

I didn't say I have an issue with Spanish. Bilingual is awesome!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Gameface]

There is absolutely a point to be made. It’s a two way street. I meet damn near every day Hispanic immigrants that have been here for years or decades and don’t know English and isolate them selves culturally. They are coming here. And I welcome them. Good. Comeon. We need good, hard working people and families. And more culture is better for us as a nation. But they came here and as such share a fair share of the burden for assimilation.

The reason I said his stance is incomplete is that we have our part to play as well. Again a two way street. I’ll go back to an oft repeated stance of mine. Bilingual education from pre K on. Make kids learn two languages. No reason we can’t. Education is the key. (Surprising how often that’s the case).

Picking up a new language is significantly harder for an adult. Their kids will be culturally indoctrinated in our society and will speak English. So after that first generation of people who come here it's a non-issue, really.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Do you all also agree that cultures change over time? If our culture is slowly becoming more accommodating of Spanish, then I don't think there is much of a point to be made. Also, it's not like Hispanic the immigrants to the US are not a hard-working group. They are just working on other things, like making money.

I don't care much about this, really, but didnt care for the overreaction, "punch in the gut" and what have you, to something so basic. It seems too reactionary and in the vein of what traditionalists complain about.

For all I care about the language thing, a citizen of a free country is free to speak what ever the hell language they want. If they can get enough political support or create enough demand for society to cater to their language then good for them.

 

[Stoked]

Picking up a new language is significantly harder for an adult. Their kids will be culturally indoctrinated in our society and will speak English. So after that first generation of people who come here it's a non-issue, really.

It is harder for adults. Granted. Still completely possible. Part of our part is offering more accessible opportunities to do so.

 

[Gameface]

It is harder for adults. Granted. Still completely possible. Part of our part is offering more accessible opportunities to do so.

Sure. I can't imagine why a person wouldn't want to know the predominant language of the nation they live in.

Also, I think there are many encounters where someone assumes the other person only speaks Spanish, but that person understands English pretty well but is self-conscious of their English skills so they try to get by in Spanish. I mean can you imagine being articulate in one language but then have to operate in a language that makes you sound like a dumbass?

 

[One Brow]

There is absolutely a point to be made. It’s a two way street. I meet damn near every day Hispanic immigrants that have been here for years or decades and don’t know English and isolate them selves culturally. They are coming here. And I welcome them. Good. Comeon. We need good, hard working people and families. And more culture is better for us as a nation. But they came here and as such share a fair share of the burden for assimilation.

If they want assimilation. If they are just looking to make money and retire to Mexico?