This made me kinda sad today...

[Zombie]

Yeah I don’t agree with that.

I think the added context of the African American protest group and the inflammatory rhetoric they used sheds new light on this issue. Calling those students racist slurs and claiming that they’d harvest the one black student’s organs is inexcusable. If anything, those people were the ones who instigated it and deserve the most criticism now that more information has been added.

I do think this opens the door for an interesting discussion:

1. What is an all boys school doing at a pro life rally? Do we seriously not see the irony here?

2. What role do MAGA hats have in provoking reaction? I know of many people who consider them to be the new hood. What role did the students chanting and ripping off their shirts doing the HAKA have in this?

3. Where were the adults? This whole dispute didn’t just suddenly occur. It went on for minutes and minutes. Where were the chaperones? You’re going to let students from your school tear off clothes and do the Haka in front of the Lincoln memorial?

I admittedly have more empathy for smirking student kid and less for the adult chaperones now that I’ve seen the other videos. He was in a large group and when the Native American came up to him he saw it as a challenge and when surrounded by his peers he acted like most young men will act. But had adults been there this whole incident could’ve been descalated.

This is a very reasonable take. The usual suspects won't agree I'm sure.

 

[Deleted member 365]

This is a very reasonable take. The usual suspects won't agree I'm sure.

No and I don’t expect them to. I’ll never see their responses as I’ve now blocked most of them. They were mostly silent and unapologetic until more information was added. Now they demand apologies. Had nothing else come out about this story I’m sure they would’ve never condemned their side. It would’ve been ignored by them and we’d be moving onto whatever stupid and illegal thing Donald has done today.

But that’s normal. They typically stay silent on issues that make their side look bad. but then they expect those from more liberal ideology to apologize and be vocal on issues that make their side look bad. It’s the same nonsense we see everyday. “Well Ocasio-Cortez said x about taxes so in order to be fair and balanced we should excuse Donald’s lying about contact with Russia.” As if x=y.

You’re really in a no-win situation often on this board. We must answer for every sin the media, FBI, Clintons, Obama, or Ocasio-Cortez commit otherwise we’re labeled as being hypocritical but they can remain silent on mulligan after mulligan everything trump, Fox News, and McConnell do while maintaining “fairness.”

While critiquing the accuracy of the MSM vs the media on the right, shall we reflect on birtherism? Obamacare’s death panels? How about uranium one? Seth rich? Any takers?

Moral relativism is a hell of a drug.

 

[Eminence]

What is a leftist? Could you define it for me? I see this term written a lot online but I have no idea what it means. How does one qualify to be a leftist? Genuinely curious

At this point it's changed to just generally mean anything even slightly to the left, more traditionally it would refer to communists/socialists.

 

[idiot]

I'm just about as leftist as they come on this forum (which is why I usually avoid the political stuff). But props to Hack for sniffing out that there's more to issue than the original narrative. And props to those on the other "side" who acknowledged it. (I do not totally agree with Hack that Phillips was out to get the boys. It sounds like there was a good deal of misunderstanding among the several groups that led to rapid-fire uncharitable interpretations of the other.)

I will say that I'm disappointed by Vox.com (which I sometimes like to read). The more complete narrative remains buried far into the original article which only painted things as MAGA-wearing students virtually assaulting a Native American elder. NBC news and (as pointed out) the Washington Post -- two supposedly "left" outlets have done somewhat better, thankfully.

I suspect that we'll continue to hear more to fill in the story, and that it's likely to be complex and the result of misunderstandings as much as pure animus. But those misunderstandings happen easily in situations of protest and activism. It hopefully reminds us that we ought to slow down in the way we interpret things. There are things that perhaps deserve our outrage, but we ought to try to be outraged slower rather than quicker.

 

[Alfalfa]

What is a leftist? Could you define it for me? I see this term written a lot online but I have no idea what it means. How does one qualify to be a leftist? Genuinely curious

It's what NPC calls the anti-Trump crowd. That's why I put it in quotes. In reality, the term is relative to where the mainstream lies (the center). With ever changing definitions of what is and isn't left/right. For me, right is the philosophical focus on order, while the left is about equality.

 

[Deleted member 365]

At this point it's changed to just generally mean anything even slightly to the left, more traditionally it would refer to communists/socialists.

Interesting. Thanks

Are Never-Trump republicans like Max Boot, Tom Nicols, George Will, and Rick Wilson leftists?

How about establishment republicans who are critics of Trump, like Jeb Bush, John McCain (Yes I know he’s deceased), Jeff Flake, and Mitt Romney?

Are known cabinet critics like HR McMaster, Rex Tillerson, and Mad Dog Mattis leftists?

So anyone from Mattis to Bernie Sanders can be lumped into one category called leftists now? Interesting. No matter their takes on private property, tax rates, social issues, foreign policy, etc? Because what I’ve seen over the few years is that right and left ideology means nothing. If one disagrees with trump it’s immediwtely discounted as “leftist” no matter if the critic or the criticism lies more on the right/conservative ideology scale. For example, many intellectuals on the right criticized Donald’s trade war. They’re pro free trade. That’s traditionally a conservative stance. But since Donald has adopted a pro tariff stance, those who have taken the traditional conservative stance have been labeled as “leftists.”

Interesting.

 

[Alfalfa]

Interesting. Thanks

Are Never-Trump republicans like Max Boot, Tom Nicols, George Will, and Rick Wilson leftists?

How about establishment republicans who are critics of Trump, like Jeb Bush, John McCain (Yes I know he’s deceased), Jeff Flake, and Mitt Romney?

Are known cabinet critics like HR McMaster, Rex Tillerson, and Mad Dog Mattis leftists?

So anyone from Mattis to Bernie Sanders can be lumped into one category called leftists now? Interesting.

Interesting.

Those are RINOs.

 

[Alfalfa]

Those are RINOs.

Sarcasm btw.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Nobody has ever been as unintentionally ironic as Thriller. Ever.

 

[Deleted member 365]

It's what NPC calls the anti-Trump crowd. That's why I put it in quotes. In reality, the term is relative to where the mainstream lies (the center). With ever changing definitions of what is and isn't left/right. For me, right is the philosophical focus on order, while the left is about equality.

You’re right, The ever changing definitions of left/right is confusing. It seems like Donald could today declare himself pro union, pro single payer health care system, and pro progressive tax and anyone who disagrees with him would be labeled a leftist. It’s such a weird dichotomy to move ideological identification from actual beliefs to allegiance to a man and whatever he farts out everyday.

 

[idiot]

I think the added context of the African American protest group and the inflammatory rhetoric they used sheds new light on this issue. Calling those students racist slurs and claiming that they’d harvest the one black student’s organs is inexcusable. If anything, those people were the ones who instigated it and deserve the most criticism now that more information has been added.

I do think this opens the door for an interesting discussion:

1. What is an all boys school doing at a pro life rally? Do we seriously not see the irony here?

2. What role do MAGA hats have in provoking reaction? I know of many people who consider them to be the new hood. You don’t wear that around DC without expecting a fight. What role did the students chanting and ripping off their shirts doing the HAKA have in this?

3. Where were the adults? This whole dispute didn’t just suddenly occur. It went on for minutes and minutes. Where were the chaperones? You’re going to let students from your school tear off clothes and do the Haka in front of the Lincoln memorial while exchanging racist rhetoric with African Americans and Native American Indians?

I admittedly have more empathy for smirking student kid and less for the adult chaperones now that I’ve seen the other videos. He was in a large group and when the Native American came up to him he saw it as a challenge and when surrounded by his peers he acted like most young men will act. But had adults been there this whole incident could’ve been descalated.

My thoughts
On the Black Israelites: I don't agree with their methods. And they should have realized that even if your object is to provoke people, you don't do that to high school students.

1. It was a Catholic school. It's ironic in some sense, sure, but they were simply following their religious principles.

2. Ideally they should have known better than to have MAGA hats. But we're at a bad point if simply the wearing of a MAGA hat is by itself enough to have to expect a fight on the nation's mall. On ripping off shirts/etc: teenage immaturity in response to what they (reasonably, it seems) felt were provocations.

3. Good question. But we don't know the answer yet. It doesn't seem like the students had been the instigators (though maybe there's more that still will come out). It doesn't seem like they approached the situation aggressively. But you would hope that the adult chaperones would have seen that this was not a situation worth pursuing and gotten them out of there.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I already posted a few of these videos in the government shutdown thread.

These are just economically anxious straight white Christian males, right?

They’re exercising their religious freedom and freedom of speech to protest against women’s rights and demonstrate their anxiety against illegal immigration. They just need tolerance. When they yell, “build the wall” and “lands get stolen, it happens” and smirk at natives, they’re just expressing their concern over the well-being or the country, not demonstrating white supremacy, right?

this is post a racist peace of ****. and anti christian.

you sir sound like a Narional socialist in the 1933-1945. those white sutdents where being harrased called national socialist, school shooters and pedophiles. they where the one being ATTACKED. but because they are white and or christian you jumped to conclusion just like the biased fake news left wing media!

seems like the jumpign to cnclusion always happens on 1 side


imagine if trump starts calling to ban i;m with her and hope and change shirts. you would lose your ****ing mind and call him an authoritarian! but heere we have democrats trying to ban maga hats just like their national socialist counterparts banned jewish books in the 1933.


you sir are a despciable racist global socialist. and i serioulsy hope you either see the error in your GLOZI ways and wake the **** up. or you get run over by a truck or hit by lighting or some **** like that!


ps the media should keep jumping to wrong conclusions and lynching innocent people becaus eof their skin color of reliiogn. so we can se that they are jsut like the national socialist racist filthy pieces of ****