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Tough Day To Be In Law Enforcement

@Gameface you’ve had a bunch of good posts in this thread. One thing I’d like to point out, is why do we have to have special instructions for how to interact with police? The whole point that we have to have these instructions, tells us how messed up our law enforcement and judicial system is.

1. Police are incentivized to nitpick.
2. Police officers have too much power.
3. The judicial system incentivizes racial profiling. When looking for cars with problems, are you going to do it in Holladay or West Valley City? When looking to search someone, are you going to do it to well spoken white dude in a suit in Alpine or some Spanish speaking brown dudes in normal clothes?
4. When taken advantage of, who’s more likely to fight back (legally), an affluent person from north salt lake or a poor person from Taylorsville?

The structure we have in place gives the police far too much power to be judge, jury, and executioner and the system we have in place crushes the poorest among us. It happens all the time:

Well I have long advocated for a set of protocols that apply to police interactions. I think it's a boring thing to talk about and it gets technical so I think most of the times I've talked about it it has been ignored.

I think that there needs to be a national standard for traffic stops. What that means is that when a traffic stop is initiated there are standard actions that need to be taken by both the police and the citizen being stopped. The stop becomes a sort of a "dance" or a pre-choreographed series of actions that both parties are fully aware of. These series of actions both provide for the maximum safety of police officers and the civilians, as when everyone is following the protocols there is no justification for escalation.

Now not all traffic stops are created equally, so there would be certain signals the police would give that you are being subject to a more aggressive category of traffic stop. If that were the case you would have a more specific and more stringent series of actions you would have to take in order to be compliant with the seriousness of the stop you are involved in.

Without getting into the weeds, these protocols would be legal tools. If a person violated the protocols be it the officer or civilian, that would have real legal consequences. But for the civilian, if they failed to follow the protocols the police would enter their non-compliance protocols which would have elements of de-escalation and enhanced security for officers. The officers would inform the civilian that there have been deemed non-compliant with the protocols and the police would then move back, take action to prevent the vehicle from leaving the scene and wait until they had the manpower and preparation to take control of the situation with everyone's safety in mind. There would then be an attempt to get the people out of the non-compliant vehicle through verbal persuasion. Then those people would be taken into custody in as gentle and respectful a manner as possible if they follow the instructions given to them. Part of this non-compliance protocol would be the acknowledgement that one or more of the people being stopped might be having a mental health issue, or have an established mental health issue, or be intoxicated or otherwise unable to complete the normal protocols. So this is not just a way for the police to make this situation more precarious. This is something that would take expert guidance to create a situation where many criteria would need to be considered. First, that you have a nonviolent person who is confused or disoriented and needs to be put in a position where they are not a threat and therefore are not threatened by police. Again, experts need to establish the way this is done. Second, a person who is of diminished capacity, either through a mental health issue, a language barrier, intoxication, or something else. There needs to be a series of actions the police can take with maximum deliberation to safely take these people into custody. Third is a person being willfully defiant. These people should be identified as such and it should be made clear to them that they have entered a special status in the protocols as a dangerous person and steps should be made clear to them that they can take to exit that status. The most important part, if a person does not take steps to become compliant, is that the police action is according to a deliberate plan and that the series of actions they take maximize their own safety first and have the best possibility of taking the subject into custody without harm second.

I mean this is just the basic concept. I think a large developed nation like the U.S. should be able to make this happen so that the wild wild west police encounters that we see so often become a thing of the past.
 

The irony of this misogynistic ****er being shot dead by this hero, female cop.

I usually follow news pretty closely, but I missed this.

It's scary how mental people can become.

Wish there was an overall solution to this, but there's always has been, are, and will be lunatics that are far too gone for any help.

Scary.
 
So why not adjust the law so cops weren’t responding to nonfunctional brake lights? I think it takes 10 seconds to think about how making cops respond to brake lights and expired registrations leads to unnecessary escalation and death. Why not have a social worker or a mechanic come and help the person out instead of pulling them over, exploiting the situation for gain, and potentially escalating the situation unnecessarily?

You’re absolutely right about the escalation. When it boils down to it, the cop’s job is public safety. That’s why it’s part of the Department of Public Safety.
As for your idea of a social worker doing it? Where are we pulling those social workers from? It’s not like there’s an abundance of them in public service. And a mechanic? Again, not a plethora of mechanics around on government payrolls. Are you going to hire a bunch of them to perform this? Where are you coming up with the funds? Not a chance in hell I’m voting for that tax increase.


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There are many many laws that go unenforced. This was something I thought about a lot years ago. I came up with the term "selective law enforcement" based on the abundance of laws that are at the discretion of the police to enforce. To me this is a massive problem.

To the point of your post I agree 100%. We should only have laws that MUST be enforced. Police should be required to enforce ALL laws at ALL times.

Of course, that would mean trimming the law books massively and leaving only those things that we deem essential.

I would support that legal system 100%. I would support a system where if a police officer sees a violation then it is their duty to respond and charge the perpetrator to the best of their ability and/or within reason.

Unfortunately we live under a system of selective lawn enforcement that allows for bias, ego, discrimination, etc., to influence who gets charged with a crime and when. It is an inherently unfair system.

I also would support this legal system 100%. There are way, way too many laws on the books. There’s really no choice but to not enforce them all. I can only imagine all the cops rolling their eyes every time another new law is passed. Just like every manager only enforces their “favorite” or “pet peeve” rules, cops will only enforce their pet peeve things. Cops having quotas doesn’t help the situation either.


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Tangentially, I know two people, who got a $40 ticket in the mail about a month after having driven through Maryland recently.

I actually have no problem with this. So long as people are only getting them for driving about 20-25mph over the speed limit. Seems like a good money maker and a way to get cops off of that crap and use them in some worthwhile way.
 
So why not adjust the law so cops weren’t responding to nonfunctional brake lights? I think it takes 10 seconds to think about how making cops respond to brake lights and expired registrations leads to unnecessary escalation and death.
Because not having cops respond to nonfunctional brake lights leads to unnecessary death. Broken windows theory has shown over and over and over that policing small crimes saves lives.

A more direct example of having the police involved in a small crime causing lives to be saved was the arrest of Garrett James Smith for loitering. It turned out that Garrett James Smith was an ANTIFA terrorist affiliated with the Iron Front out of Portland who had a pipe bomb he intended on using to kill Florida Representative Anthony Sabatini along with anyone in his general vicinity. Those cops policing small crimes saved lives.
 
You’re absolutely right about the escalation. When it boils down to it, the cop’s job is public safety. That’s why it’s part of the Department of Public Safety.
As for your idea of a social worker doing it? Where are we pulling those social workers from? It’s not like there’s an abundance of them in public service. And a mechanic? Again, not a plethora of mechanics around on government payrolls. Are you going to hire a bunch of them to perform this? Where are you coming up with the funds? Not a chance in hell I’m voting for that tax increase.


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You don’t need to vote for a tax increase. -2 officers + 1 social worker + 1 mechanic. You just need to reform the police. This isn't that hard.
 
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Read this article and tell me again how we don’t need to reform the police. This is ridiculous

 
Read this article and tell me again how we don’t need to reform the police. This is ridiculous

Forfeiture in particular seems to be something ripe for abuse. I had a friend busted for selling pot. He was not a huge dealer, just selling enough to get his money back, and freebie weed for himself. Police seized two homes he owned. Two homes worth hundreds of thousands.
 
Forfeiture in particular seems to be something ripe for abuse. I had a friend busted for selling pot. He was not a huge dealer, just selling enough to get his money back, and freebie weed for himself. Police seized two homes he owned. Two homes worth hundreds of thousands.
The war on weed is ridiculous in the extreme. But we allow drinking and tobacco to kill millions and destroy lives and families, but hey, those are accepted by the religious nut-jobs behind the push to abolish "reefer madness", so they are ok, but weed is the debil or something for reasons. Somehow this has to change.
 
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Forfeiture in particular seems to be something ripe for abuse. I had a friend busted for selling pot. He was not a huge dealer, just selling enough to get his money back, and freebie weed for himself. Police seized two homes he owned. Two homes worth hundreds of thousands.
Right? Why should he lose his property over that?

I've read so much about this over the last few years. There are police departments that vacuum up millions of assets regardless of whether the people they investigate are guilty or not. It's a real racket. It's legalized mob work helped with the aid of public funding. No one wants to talk about this because you'll be deemed "anti police" nor does either political party want to touch these guys over fear of being smeared by their unions.
 
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