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Trade Confirmed: Jazz get jack for Bogey

Y’all are turning a hustle big into some kind of folk legend. If you wanna talk about brain rot, there it is.

When a 6’ 8” 200 pound center is no longer more athletic than the guys around him, it’s gonna be ugly.

You get value while you can on players like that. Especially when you don’t have restricted free agency rights.

He is literally the second coming of Dennis Rodman lolz.
 
He is literally the second coming of Dennis Rodman lolz.
He’s a real nice player if you’re trying to win a ring right now. Right now, because his incredible value is gonna vanish when he signs his next contract.

Guess what the Jazz aren’t doing for the next two years? But sure, let fruit rot on the vine. Pissing away assets is what this organization does. Glad to see us return to it.
 
He’s a real nice player if you’re trying to win a ring right now. Right now, because his incredible value is gonna vanish when he signs his next contract.

Guess what the Jazz aren’t doing for the next two years? But sure, let fruit rot on the vine. Pissing away assets is what this organization does. Glad to see us return to it.

I just find it funny that a 2024 1st is just something that is a non-starter for a rotational piece.

The potential double draft and potential for Phoenix to get bit by the injury bug is why you’d do something like this.
 
I just find it funny that a 2024 1st is just something that is a non-starter for a rotational piece.

The potential double draft and potential for Phoenix to get bit by the injury bug is why you’d do something like this
You don't even know what they were offering yet you are pissed we didn't take it. If there was ANY value at all don't you think Danny bleeping Ainge would have took it? Do you think he took the other deal just to piss in your Cheerios? Phoenix wanted stuff for nothing and to stick us with their trash. Dumping Bogan for nothing would have been better than that.
 
You don't even know what they were offering yet you are pissed we didn't take it. If there was ANY value at all don't you think Danny bleeping Ainge would have took it? Do you think he took the other deal just to piss in your Cheerios? Phoenix wanted stuff for nothing and to stick us with their trash. Dumping Bogan for nothing would have been better than that.
My fav part is where declare he doesn’t know what they were offering then state they were offering nothing and wanted us to take their trash.

The offer was either crowder, Saric, a first for bogey/Vando or crowder shamet a first for bogey Vando. Pretty easy yes to #1 if the alternative is the KO deal we did. Shamet has some money on his deal but it’s fine.

It’s okay to disagree with the front office… they aren’t infallible.
 
MAYBE THE GMs around the league were just pissed at Ainge for changing the landscape of trading with the massive pick hauls he got in the trades this offseason. They were like F Ainge we aint offering him crap from now on and so with season coming Ainge just made the best trade available. I dont think anyone was giving Ainge another 1st offer just for spite.
 
MAYBE THE GMs around the league were just pissed at Ainge for changing the landscape of trading with the massive pick hauls he got in the trades this offseason. They were like F Ainge we aint offering him crap from now on and so with season coming Ainge just made the best trade available. I dont think anyone was giving Ainge another 1st offer just for spite.

It's actually been reported that the Jazz did have some teams offer them a 1st for Bojan. The Suns offered a package that included a first but wanted Bogey and Vanderbilt, other teams like the Heat offered a 1st but wanted the Jazz to take back long-term salary and the Jazz weren't willing to do that.
 
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We are less than a month away from the start of the regular season. I think Ainge didn’t have a lot of current takers for Bogey (and getting a 1st back right now) for whatever reason and said **** it. It’s about the draft and tanking. And not to get the 9th pick. Do it right.
 
It's actually been reported that the Jazz did have some teams offer them a 1st for Bojan. The Suns offered a package that included a first but wanted Bogey and Vanderbilt, other teams like the Heat offered a 1st but wanted the Jazz to take back long-term salary and the Jazz weren't willing to do that.
And the Lakers (just not two picks).

We’ve been discussing the basic frameworks of the deals that were passed on for weeks or months.

But I think the overall point that Ainge cultivates grievance is true and documented. That creates complications for sure.
 
You don't even know what they were offering yet you are pissed we didn't take it. If there was ANY value at all don't you think Danny bleeping Ainge would have took it? Do you think he took the other deal just to piss in your Cheerios? Phoenix wanted stuff for nothing and to stick us with their trash. Dumping Bogan for nothing would have been better than that.

This is pure ****ing gold.

You say I don’t even know what they were offering but then you state Phoenix wanted stuff for nothing lmao.

If there was any value at all don’t I think Danny would have taken it? No I really don’t because there was value and he opted to do an inferior deal.

People can say at least we saved money in the Detroit deal. Bogey/Vando for Crowder/Saric/1st saves us almost the same amount plus we get a 1st plus we don’t have 3M of guaranteed salary on the books next year plus we subtract Vando’s salary next year too.

It’s just too bad there wasn’t any value in a deal like that and the absolute best we could do is get Olynyk and save money.
 
Not what he said at all and you haven’t paid attention to the reporting. We could have gotten a first but didn’t want to take on long term salary.

At the trade deadline additional trades open up as guys that were signed can be aggregated. If they aren’t in the play in race I’d bet they are able to get a first for him. Teams also will have an idea of how they are doing and how their picks will land.

Also injuries happen and bogey might be needed to replace an injured player on a contending team


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I’m thinking that short of a three or four for one trade, that Butler, NAW and Johnson are the odd guys out. I wish however that they showed some brass and waived Rudy Gay and kept either Johnson or NAW.
Gay is needed for salary filler once we take on a bad contract to save a team from the tax Bad contract plus pick for (filler) will happen.
 
Why wouldn’t Utah at least got second round pick? Detroit had one from Portland they could have added from the Jerami Grant trade.
 
I just find it funny that a 2024 1st is just something that is a non-starter for a rotational piece.

The potential double draft and potential for Phoenix to get bit by the injury bug is why you’d do something like this.
You don't know it was an unprotected 24 pick. If it was, Danny might have done the deal. I mean he has been pretty upfront about 3 things. Players with potential, good vets on expirings, and unprotected later year picks. Give him those, and the deal gets done. We had absolutely no interest in the Knicks garbage protected picks.

I mean if the deal from Phoenix is so good you would expect Indy or the Spurs to jump on it with their assets, no?

BTW, how is that moving vets for firsts going for Indiana and San Antonio since the Rudy and Donovan trades?
 
Alright, so I actually think I figured out what happened here. It is of course context-dependent, but I would argue it is especially context-dependent:

I. The Jazz are operating under this basic framework ("The Plan"):
-A. The want to spend as little actual cash as possible during this era.
-B. So they are trying to get as close to 90% of the cap as possible (for those that don't know, teams are required to pay a minimum of 90% of the cap on player salaries. This means teams are throwing away utility if they have cap commitments below that figure or spending cash if they are above it).
-C. Danny Ainge has incredible power, only technically less powerful than Smith but in reality almost equally powerful (he is the alternate governor, after all)

II. As it stood and basically continues to stand:
-A. If all players on the Jazz with player options opt-in for '23-'24, they are at ~$105 million. This is important for calculation since the Jazz don't control if the players opt in or out, so to be conservative, they plan on them opting in.
-B. If the Jazz exercise the team option to keep Beasley next year, they are damn close to that 90% of the cap (~$121 million)

III. So, the operating parameters on a Bogey deal were:
-A. Maintain at least the option to get close to the 90% of the cap figure or below for next year
-B. Acquire some kind of utility; draft assets ideally, at least if deemed of sufficient quality while considering criterion A.

Reports indicate that in the prospective Phoenix or Miami deals, the Jazz would've had to take on longterm salary to get the draft assets, which violates one of the operating parameters. We're not ownership, and that's their prerogative. Fine. What about the Lakers deal? We'll come back to that.

The overarching operating framework (section I.) then kicks in, whereby they try to satisfy all criteria as much as possible (save CASH, maintain or enhance flexibility, satisfy Ainge). So they find the Detroit deal which does so (saves cash, gives a mostly-unguaranteed team option which you can argue could provide at least increased optionality, and Ainge gets one of his guys).

So now we come to the Lakers. Contrary to a lot of the narrative about him that reigns after he makes a great deal, I think there is a lot of evidence that his pride is often misconstrued as patience, and that that takes the lead in decision-making. Reports indicate that the Jazz basically could (/should) have satisfied ALL criteria above (I - III) by consolidating players and gotten ONE probably-unprotected 1st round pick later in the decade. But Ainge demanded TWO! And the first rule when working with Danny Ainge is when he sets a price, he only minimally budges. There are no more deals to make after that one, so the argument that he has to maintain negotiating integrity for the next deal is pretty hollow reasoning. Maybe the Lakers make the same calculation about JC that is premised above, so they want the Jazz to take back greater salary in the deal which has big cash ramifications this year (maybe not, though). So Danny's pride probably ruled the day because he didn't think he was getting enough back, went and found a pet that saved Ryan cash, and they moved on.

Where this gets frustrating to me is that without taking THT, there are fewer constraints on salaries that go beyond this year, and there's the possibility that JC would've been included in the deal to the Lakers, too. And Vanderbilt. But Ainge has a boner for THT, Vanderbilt, and Olynyk, so they stay.

Summary: Jazz should've taken the Lakers deal but didn't either because of cash implications this year, Danny's pride, or both; and the Jazz are planning on keeping Beasley (but are equally happy that he has a team option).
 
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You don't know it was an unprotected 24 pick. If it was, Danny might have done the deal. I mean he has been pretty upfront about 3 things. Players with potential, good vets on expirings, and unprotected later year picks. Give him those, and the deal gets done. We had absolutely no interest in the Knicks garbage protected picks.

I mean if the deal from Phoenix is so good you would expect Indy or the Spurs to jump on it with their assets, no?

BTW, how is that moving vets for firsts going for Indiana and San Antonio since the Rudy and Donovan trades?

What player with an expiring contract who averages 18+ PPG is available from Indiana or San Antonio?
 
You don't know it was an unprotected 24 pick. If it was, Danny might have done the deal. I mean he has been pretty upfront about 3 things. Players with potential, good vets on expirings, and unprotected later year picks. Give him those, and the deal gets done. We had absolutely no interest in the Knicks garbage protected picks.

I mean if the deal from Phoenix is so good you would expect Indy or the Spurs to jump on it with their assets, no?

BTW, how is that moving vets for firsts going for Indiana and San Antonio since the Rudy and Donovan trades?
Holy hell… it’s because SA and Indiana don’t have Bojan… the Suns wanted Bogey and Vando. It was likely a 23 first offered by Phoenix… which isn’t ideal but it’s currency/value we can use if we feel we have too many picks in the 20s.

Straight up I think I’d rather have Saric on his deal than KO on his. If the deal was bogey for Crowder(can find a home for him and get a second for it) and Saric plus a first for bogey and Vando then it sucks to pay 150% of what we should for a second but it gives us a cleaner cap and a pick… I’d rather pay 150% to get something useful than sell a guy at 50% to get a vet on a somewhat expiring deal that Danny has a hard-on for. If it was Shamet and Crowder then whatevs but I’d still take it over the deal we did.

Also in all the deals we’ve done we’ve gotten no additional second round picks. It feels like that might be the **** Danny doesn’t have time for… the THT deal and Bogey deal should absolutely have had second rounders involved… again to use as currency to grease the wheels on future deals.
 
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