Trade deadline discussion

[KqWIN]

I mean the goal is to improve on the Bogey or JC spot. I think it is easier to upgrade the JC spot personally. Bogey and two first for Barnes? The firsts are waaaaaaay out in that scenario and those are some dangerous picks to give. Is that a big upgrade?

Swapping JC for Smart, Melton, or another defensive wing type could change things a bit but he's tricky to move. Joe doesn't get moved unless he gets hurt or we get some amazing deal that is too perfect to pass up. He either retires and we need the relief or comes back on a $5M ish type deal that is a great value. I think he's going to retire.

I'd love to throw a homer deal out there but I think it will be tough... Here is one I kinda thought about. JC is used in a lot of lineups with 2 of mike, DM or Joe.... you don't need to replace him with a guard. What if you did this type of deal:

Utah out: JC, Udoka
Utah in: Garrett Temple, Kenrich Williams

NO out: Hayes, Temple
NO in: Jordan Clarkson

OKC out: Williams
OK In: Hayes, Udoka

OKC has a bunch of space so salaries don't have to line up. NO needs offense (and defense)... they have to be getting desperate. I'd love to get Hart but JC for Hart is likely a little rich for NO.

Temple is a solid defender who can play 10 minutes a night and fill in when guys are hurt. Williams is kind of a do it all wing. Both have cost effective deals so Ryan saves some money (money that DL can reinvest in the program (sarcasm font)).

If you are going to play small ball with Rudy Gay at center you will need guys like those to make it work. Completely unsexy... I know. Just throwing a different type of deal out there.

We probably could have gotten at least a first + Hart for Jordan Clarkson during the summer. Hart was not interested in playing for them and they weren’t super interested in bringing him back either.

Crazy how fast things can change. Hart only got $12M guaranteed and somehow the move NOP didn’t real want to make turned into their best decision of the summer. I agree that most would see Hart as the better asset right now. That’s the reality of trading someone when their value is lowest.

If it’s just for Kenrich + Temple I wouldn’t do it, and this is coming from someone who was a huge proponent of this kind of trade. I just don’t think Kenrich and Temple are real options to play big minutes during the playoffs. I don’t think Clarkson is either, but his 20 MPG in the playoffs will probably be more effective than those two.

 

[infection]

I’m going to sound like a broken record, but…

 

[Avery]

Still worried about our ability to really play a stretch four. Gay is an improvement, but we still don't have any reliable shooting outside from bigs.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We probably could have gotten at least a first + Hart for Jordan Clarkson during the summer. Hart was not interested in playing for them and they weren’t super interested in bringing him back either.

Crazy how fast things can change. Hart only got $12M guaranteed and somehow the move NOP didn’t real want to make turned into their best decision of the summer. I agree that most would see Hart as the better asset right now. That’s the reality of trading someone when their value is lowest.

If it’s just for Kenrich + Temple I wouldn’t do it, and this is coming from someone who was a huge proponent of this kind of trade. I just don’t think Kenrich and Temple are real options to play big minutes during the playoffs. I don’t think Clarkson is either, but his 20 MPG in the playoffs will probably be more effective than those two.

Yeah IDK about that. Maybe Hart for JC straight up this summer... maybe we get a little sweetner... I don't think his value was that high and I don't think it "fallen" all that much. The contract Hart signed was basically designed to be traded so he ends up on the block at some point. If he doesn't like where he ends up he can decline his 3rd year option... assumes he is playing well though. NO is just kinda dumb. Why in the hell wouldn't they want to keep Lonzo? He was basically perfect for Zion. Zion now trying to eat his way out of NO... such a weirdo team.

Back to Kenrich and Temple... I don't love it, but its the type of realistic deal I could see being out there. There are times when we might struggle to create a shot if we offload JC... but I think both guys can play some minutes in the playoffs... I mean PJ Tucker played 30 minutes a night for the champs in the playoffs. Temple is likely a better offensive player than PJ (he can dribble a little) but a worse defender. I still think he could give you a burst of 15 minutes of good hard defense. On some of the type of players we struggle with. More playable than Dunn because he can shoot it. Well respected vet so he will get some veteran calls. Currently 1.8 steals per 36 and 1.1 blks... solid rebounder for a guard.

Kenrich is a guy I'd love to see next to good players. Might be the Joe Ingles replacement.

Another big consideration is this saves us around $7M (once you cut Oni). The tax savings might be double that... so maybe it frees us up a smidge for other stuff. Saves us 6-7M the following year as well.

Not pushing for this type of deal but trying to realistically consider what management would. While we don't care about the dollars and cents ownership surely does.

 

[whatthe]

JC for Smart
Ingles for Markannen

 

[KqWIN]

Yeah IDK about that. Maybe Hart for JC straight up this summer... maybe we get a little sweetner... I don't think his value was that high and I don't think it "fallen" all that much. The contract Hart signed was basically designed to be traded so he ends up on the block at some point. If he doesn't like where he ends up he can decline his 3rd year option... assumes he is playing well though. NO is just kinda dumb. Why in the hell wouldn't they want to keep Lonzo? He was basically perfect for Zion. Zion now trying to eat his way out of NO... such a weirdo team.

Back to Kenrich and Temple... I don't love it, but its the type of realistic deal I could see being out there. There are times when we might struggle to create a shot if we offload JC... but I think both guys can play some minutes in the playoffs... I mean PJ Tucker played 30 minutes a night for the champs in the playoffs. Temple is likely a better offensive player than PJ (he can dribble a little) but a worse defender. I still think he could give you a burst of 15 minutes of good hard defense. On some of the type of players we struggle with. More playable than Dunn because he can shoot it. Well respected vet so he will get some veteran calls. Currently 1.8 steals per 36 and 1.1 blks... solid rebounder for a guard.

Kenrich is a guy I'd love to see next to good players. Might be the Joe Ingles replacement.

Another big consideration is this saves us around $7M (once you cut Oni). The tax savings might be double that... so maybe it frees us up a smidge for other stuff. Saves us 6-7M the following year as well.

Not pushing for this type of deal but trying to realistically consider what management would. While we don't care about the dollars and cents ownership surely does.

I think JC's value was really high this summer. People really valued him, that's why he won 6MOY over Ingles who was a much better player. I think he was held in similar regard to Hardaway and Fournier who got paid significantly more than what JC is getting paid. It's impossible to know and it wasn't a real option the FO was considering so not worth a huge discussion. I just hope we called NOP every single day this off season. Hart was a player we could have absolutely used and Griffin was on tilt. You think not signing Lonzo is bad? How about giving up a first round pick to go from Lonzo to Graham. I think reality has hit NOP and we may have missed our window, but I know Hart probably doesn't want to be there. I'm hoping they had some kind of agreement to trade him because that is how the contract is structured.

I see Kenrich and Temple as more in the Paschall realm and not nearly in the same tier as JC or Tucker. Those guys aren't real options to play instead of our existing rotation, so all you're really doing is changing our bench unit. Are we a better bench unit with those players? I don't think so. Even with JC's struggles the bench is working. Maybe his role gets cut in the playoffs, but I like him for 15-20 minutes more than those other guys. If you're shooting for that level of player, I think you're better off going for a Galloway type or looking for a buyout guy.

I get what you're saying though, we just don't have many realistic options. If a change was going to be made, it needed to happen in the off-season. There are so many more options when teams are still setting their rosters. Nothing that has happened this season should have changed the team's stance on this. If they didn't want to trade then, they won't trade now with worse options available to him.

 

[NAOS]

I think JC's value was really high this summer. People really valued him, that's why he won 6MOY over Ingles who was a much better player. I think he was held in similar regard to Hardaway and Fournier who got paid significantly more than what JC is getting paid. It's impossible to know and...

So much heavy speculation. Is it made ok because you say “it’s impossible to know”?

 

[Shad]

Maybe they don’t block our number if the offer is more like Butler, Paschall, two 2nds, and their choice of JC, Ingles, or Bogey (have to match salary).

I’d rather offer that for Harrison Barnes, though.

This is basically the kitchen-sink offer, right?

Actually, Ingles and Wood's salary match already. They can have an expiring and a pick. We get Wood

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think JC's value was really high this summer. People really valued him, that's why he won 6MOY over Ingles who was a much better player. I think he was held in similar regard to Hardaway and Fournier who got paid significantly more than what JC is getting paid. It's impossible to know and it wasn't a real option the FO was considering so not worth a huge discussion. I just hope we called NOP every single day this off season. Hart was a player we could have absolutely used and Griffin was on tilt. You think not signing Lonzo is bad? How about giving up a first round pick to go from Lonzo to Graham. I think reality has hit NOP and we may have missed our window, but I know Hart probably doesn't want to be there. I'm hoping they had some kind of agreement to trade him because that is how the contract is structured.

I see Kenrich and Temple as more in the Paschall realm and not nearly in the same tier as JC or Tucker. Those guys aren't real options to play instead of our existing rotation, so all you're really doing is changing our bench unit. Are we a better bench unit with those players? I don't think so. Even with JC's struggles the bench is working. Maybe his role gets cut in the playoffs, but I like him for 15-20 minutes more than those other guys. If you're shooting for that level of player, I think you're better off going for a Galloway type or looking for a buyout guy.

I get what you're saying though, we just don't have many realistic options. If a change was going to be made, it needed to happen in the off-season. There are so many more options when teams are still setting their rosters. Nothing that has happened this season should have changed the team's stance on this. If they didn't want to trade then, they won't trade now with worse options available to him.

If his value was really high this summer then it’s still going to be high. It doesn’t just evaporate because he has had a slow start. If JC for Hart and a first was available this summer then JC for Hart straight up is completely doable still. JC isn’t a crypto currency.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

This thread is so far very depressing to read.

 

[gomretat]

My guess is there will be no move of any significance - the Jazz will not move any of the rotation players right now. They are going to see how this season works out.

 

[infection]

My guess is there will be no move of any significance - the Jazz will not move any of the rotation players right now. They are going to see how this season works out.

A wet blanket and a winner. Close the thread because this is where my money is.