Donovan Mitchell might become a PG when he's like 32 years old and he has to drop his hero ball ego, but that isnt going to happen anytime soon.
Trade Mitchell (Include Clarkson)
- Thread starter Saint Cy of JFC
- Start date
Look,
Mitchell has great stats but he has never stepped up on defense. He was actively a big part of why Jazz's perimeter defense is the biggest topic now.
I really don't care about the comparison, it just bothers me that the excuses you make for one aren't there for the other. You try to paint Mitchell as an average defender. Why?
I can say that Gobert is a limited offensive player. He doesn't have a low center of gravity and can't punish small balls with post ups. He can only deep seal and dunk. That gives others only a small frame to find him. That's who he is as a player. But he still sets so many screens, seals, crashes the boards and tries to make the offense run.
Mitchell doesn't have that kinda resolution on defense. I don't look for him to lock down anyone, put a hand on the ball every possession or average 10 rebounds. The same way I wouldn't look for Gobert to create his own shot. I just want to see him make sound rotations, be there physically and just not to sleep on defense more than 1 possession a game.
The team helps Mitchell to find his best plays(for good reason). Spread PnR with good shooters on the corner to maximize space is a good setting for him. Last time I checked Mitchell was the most efficient PnR scorer among guards in the league but he has only been so-so on isos and catch and shoots. The team works for him to get his best shots.
But the same team doesn't work the same way defensively. Gobert is there to clean up not dominate his matchup. If the Jazz had better defenders we could see schemes like we did in the Houston series(which Gobert dominated defensively). It's not much of a problem actually because Jazz have a really good offense so you can put Gobert there as a cleaner and not allow him to hound players but the others still need to put some effort.
It just gets grating when someone talks about dominating and stuff because the team isn't set up that way.
Donovan is going to be bad defensively at either guard position.
Donovan isnt a PG because his best skill is unrelenting pursuit of being an aggressive offensive player. His passing is mediocre besides being a pretty good drive and kick player. He isn't going to help a guy get going. He doesn't make players around him better. He's going to put a lot of defensive pressure on his backcourt partner because that player will always have to guard the tougher matchup.
Just Ted
Well-Known Member
The statement you make “he doesn’t make other players better” is the most concerning thing to me. There have been many border line Allstars who get their points but never win the big games. Is that what we have on our hands and does Donovan recognize that’s what is is becoming. I guess it’s a non issue since the tony Jones tweet show’s that we may be trading him soon. We will find out soon
This team is not built around Rudy. Its just as much and probably much more built around Mitchell.
Gobert has dominated in the playoffs and does not get exposed or drop off. He has dominated plenty in the playoffs. Iso offensive basketball is not the only way to dominate a game. Gobert cant create for himself, but that doesnt mean he cant dominate. He has a huge positive impact on both ends and stats back that up.
Gobert has dominated in the playoffs and does not get exposed or drop off. He has dominated plenty in the playoffs. Iso offensive basketball is not the only way to dominate a game. Gobert cant create for himself, but that doesnt mean he cant dominate. He has a huge positive impact on both ends and stats back that up.
If we are forced to trade either Mitchell or Gobert we have to trade Mitchell. His value will be way higher and we’d get way more for him. We’d be more likely to contend getting pieces for him than we would getting pieces for Gobert. Gobert is our entire defensive system where as we can make up the scoring we’d lose from Mitchell more than we could on defense from losing Gobert.
Mitchell has been great in the pick and roll. Arguably one of the best in the NBA this year. He is also creating a lot for others, just as much as anyone in our system. He has done it as well as Conley this season. Ingles is a distant 3rd this year. Mitchell is slightly better at it this year, but even last year he was solid here.
Mitchell is bad at either position on defense. Its an effort thing that needs to change, especially in the playoffs. If it was just him it would hurt but not too much. But when its multiple people it kills us and is contagious. Having Clarkson come in and put next to no effort on defense and not even look to pass on offense kills us unless he is red hot. Mitchell needs to be the leader and step up and call others out. But I dont think he will do that for a long time in his career. He is too buddy buddy with everyone.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
What's that line from Billy Maddison where he receives zero points... this post is that.
Built around Don? Lol. Let's have zero perimeter defenders around him and have two ball dominant small guys as running mates. We got rid of Favors to give more space to Rudy by adding Bojan.
Yeah built around him...him being Rudy Gobert.
Rudy couldn't dominate Capella. Or Adams. Or Jokic. Or 6'3" guys from LA.
I'm so tired of the lazy excuse making Jazz fans who don't know basketball. This fanbase doesn't deserve Donovan Mitchell.
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Were kind of ****ed no matter who we trade. You never get equal value back for a star player. You get 3 quarters back. We probably can get some decent picks but that isnt helping around either player for awhile. Its a step back for sure. But it might end up being the only option if there is a problem between the two. I dont know if there is though. Who we trade is dependent on what trades come up and what kind of commitment we have from the player staying I guess.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
We aren't that far off. It's ain't that hard -
Draft Herb Jones
Trade Clarkson for defense
That's literally all we had to do. We are a 30 win team before the all star break. That's good. However, we can't do **** in the playoffs unless we get some bulldog defender types.
Trade Clarkson for Smart if Boston takes that. Trade Conley for Smart before trading Bojan. We desperately need Bojan's spot up spacing and occasional postups.
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I don’t necessarily think so. We shouldn’t trade for a young players + picks package from the Knicks. We should go after another star like Lillard, Brown, Beal or reluctantly even someone like Simmons + Thybulle or Maxey.
No we got rid of Favors and added Bojan to give Mitchell more room work in, not Gobert. We brought in a veteran PG to let Mitchell play his more natural SG position that the team and Mitchell felt he was better at. You can create this false narrative in your head but it doesnt make it true. If we were building around Gobert we would have better defenders to help his strengths and have an elite defense. But we built around Mitchell and the offense, hoping Gobert could simply do his thing without any help from the other 4 positions. We gave Mitchell help so he wasnt our only offensive weapon. We gave him weapons to pass to and spread the court out so he wasnt double and triple teamed like we was earlier. The team has been pretty clear about catering to Mitchell.
Its sad that a person who supposedly watched those games thinks Gobert didnt dominate. You are still claiming Capella outplayed Gobert which is not true and proven many times.
Its a pretty bad look to call a bunch of passionate fans people who dont know basketball. It seems like maybe you have lost the argument at that point and just want to pretend you are more knowledgeable than everyone else for now reason.