Almost all of his damage in PNR comes from his scoring.
Trade Mitchell (Include Clarkson)
- Thread starter Saint Cy of JFC
- Start date
I agree we are not too far off. We can make some trades to improve. I think this team is coasting a lot and looking towards the playoffs. I am not sure we can turn it on last second though. Swapping out one offensive player for one bench defensive player isnt that big of a move that does much though.
Come playoffs we need every player on the court to play team defense with or without some "bulldog" defender. Its pretty easy to counter that defense. You switch that guy off the ball and get a bad defender matchup. Teams constantly try to switch onto players like Mitchell and Clarkson, especially in the playoffs.
A lot of it does at an elite level. But he does pass out of it when that is what the defense gives. We arent really a team built around having one guy create a lot. We run those pick and rolls to score and if they double down too hard kick for open shots. Even Rubio wasnt really creating much for out team with this system. Most of Conley damage in the pick and roll comes on scoring. Conley is a great PG.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Nothing you said proves we built around Don. Nothing. The team talked about spacing around Rudy and getting a stretch 4 before we even knew Don was All Star quality. The Favors Rudy dynamic was being questioned years ago. Remember how we tried to get Favors to develop a corner 3?
It's all built around Rudy. His screens on offense and the funnel on defense. You can't argue that.
When we struggled the 2nd time against Houston our front office wanted more offense and made the calculation that our defense would be fine because we had Rudy back there. They didn't go - hey, Don is a good scorer so let's go get more scorers. Your argument makes zero sense. It's just lazy.
Rudy did not get dominated by Capella. He actually outplayed Capella. But he didn't dominate him. Or Adams. Or even Valenciunus in the Memphis series.
I'm not trying to disrespect Jazz fans. I'm not. I'm just sick and tired of this defense mechanism about Rudy. Makes you guys blind. It's bizarre, and it's a problem. Yall get so attached to certain players and make every excuse for them.
Favors is a great example. I said years ago we should trade him and people crushed me. He didn't fit. We wasted time and resources forcing him to try to fit.
Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
How does spacing help Gobert? Who benefits from more Spacing? Mitchell.
Our defensive strategy is built around our elite defender. That does not mean we built a team around him. That means we did the opposite and now have a problem where he is the only guy impacting us on defense. We built too much around helping Mitchell and the offense. Our offense is not built around Gobert. He is our best pick setter so he does that but he hardly gets touches and is ignored a lot. Our offense is built around Mitchell who dominates the ball and every piece we have brought in has been to help him on offense.
That is the opposite of what our FO expressed and the mouth pieces for the Jazz in the media. When we struggled in the playoffs to make open shots and Mitchell was being double and triple teamed kicking to wide open players who missed, our FO decided we need to give him more help on offense. We need more offensive weapons to take the load off him in the regular season and playoffs and we need more spacing for him to work in. He benefits the most from those players coming in. When we traded for Conley the team stated it was to help Mitchell, even if you dont believe them.
I think your hate for Rudy, that is well documented, is the one making you blind to him. Most people on here seem to know what Gobert is and know he has plenty of weakness's. You seem to have a narrative that you desperately try to force all the time. The fact that you compare one player and their matchup to his impact proves you are pretty blind to his impact on the game. If Gobert didnt dominate against those teams why is his net rating so great in those series? Why is pretty much every advanced stat showing he is ahead of anyone on the court? Maybe he is dominating in ways you dont seem to value.
I know this is impossible for some to believe, but the team is built around Donovan and Rudy. How can that be accomplished?
-stock up on plus shooters for every other rotation player
-leverage some defense for shooting since you have the greatest rim protector ever on the team and hope that other teams don't get hot jump shooting
-stock up on good decision-makers, efficient scorers, or low-volume guys
Rudy needs Donovan because Rudy can't do **** with a basketball and at a certain point you have to have guys that can get (difficult) shots off.
Donovan needs Rudy for a lot more reasons (the team's offense is predicated on screens and he is a mediocre iso player, Donovan is a putrid defender as is most of the team, Rudy creates a lot of gravity as a roll-man which opens up passing and driving lanes, Rudy is an elite great rebounder on both sides of the ball).
The summary is Donovan is great at turning recklessness into highlights and can go absolutely nuclear, but that style of play requires a lot of guard-rails and clean-up to work optimally. You need all of what they both do well, even if there's still some gaps and less synergy than any of us hope.
I'd rather trade neither, but I think the point made earlier that Donovan would net a larger return means if you had to trade one - from a pure asset management standpoint - Donovan makes more sense (if we're assuming they have equal value to this team, which obviously some find heinously offensive).
-stock up on plus shooters for every other rotation player
-leverage some defense for shooting since you have the greatest rim protector ever on the team and hope that other teams don't get hot jump shooting
-stock up on good decision-makers, efficient scorers, or low-volume guys
Rudy needs Donovan because Rudy can't do **** with a basketball and at a certain point you have to have guys that can get (difficult) shots off.
Donovan needs Rudy for a lot more reasons (the team's offense is predicated on screens and he is a mediocre iso player, Donovan is a putrid defender as is most of the team, Rudy creates a lot of gravity as a roll-man which opens up passing and driving lanes, Rudy is an elite great rebounder on both sides of the ball).
The summary is Donovan is great at turning recklessness into highlights and can go absolutely nuclear, but that style of play requires a lot of guard-rails and clean-up to work optimally. You need all of what they both do well, even if there's still some gaps and less synergy than any of us hope.
I'd rather trade neither, but I think the point made earlier that Donovan would net a larger return means if you had to trade one - from a pure asset management standpoint - Donovan makes more sense (if we're assuming they have equal value to this team, which obviously some find heinously offensive).
Eastern Orthodoxy
Well-Known Member
What you seem to mean by "dominate" means "score a lot of points."
Mitchell is the engine that makes our offense go. He also needs to play better defense and should definitely not be a point guard. He's not built for it.
Also, take away Gobert and we're Portland. Lillard definitely "dominates."
Katastrofica
Well-Known Member
Lol just wanna say that,whiteout rudy this team is portland.
Katastrofica
Well-Known Member
As I said before Don playing for himself not for team , he is not superstar and will never be one , but sadly he think he is. When he scores 40 and we lost the game he is happy and I'm not. For winning championship u need 100% effort from every guy in team on both ends. U will never see Don to play like that ,couse grind on def end u can't post on Instagram..
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Lol.
We were on a winning streak last season when Rudy came out and talked to the media about not getting enough touches on the offensive end. Don't preach about players wanting theirs. All these guys have drive and ego or they wouldn't be pros.
Please go watch a playoff game. Please. Don lays it all out there for the win for the team. In the playoffs, he plays as hard as anyone on the team. And he plays better than anyone on the team.
Sure without Rudy we are Portland. Without Don, we would get swept in the first round.
Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
LoPo
Well-Known Member
We run the defense around Rudy - FACT
We run the offense around Rudy's screens - FACT
Bojan wasn't brought in for Don. Due to Rudy's offensive limitations, we could not play Favors and Rudy together anymore. We had Favors and Rudy questions before Don was even around. The SG, whether it be Donovan Mitchell or Ronnie Brewer, and the entire team needed the spacing that was clogged by Rudy and Favors. Bojan was brought in because it just made basketball sense.
Clarkson wasn't added or kept for Donovan or Rudy. He clearly takes the ball out of everybody's hands.
Butler - how does drafting Butler instead of a defensive wing help Don if Don is so ball dominant?
Whiteside, Bradley, and Doke were added to be Rudy whenever Rudy was out because everything we do is built around a Rudy.
Conley was a ball dominant PG - if Don is so ball dominant, why not go get Jrue Holiday who doesn't need the ball but is elite at defense? Or go get Brogdon or Lonzo who are similar? Or better yet, go get Donovan's good buddy Chris Paul. Adding Conley was just adding a good player to help everybody. He wasn't added "for Donovan." He was added for Utah.
It's not a bad thing that we built around Rudy. It's his prime right now. It was worth a shot. We should have put more emphasis on perimeter defense, but we absolutely did not "build around Donovan".