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LoPo

Well-Known Member
If bumping threads of bad takes is somehow bullying then y'all soft as hell. There is multiple takes I'm bumping, not just one dude's bad takes.
I still think that the Ingles $14 million extension is an overpay. How can anybody really defend that number when you compare it to the market? And I love Joe Ingles.

And how are my takes bad takes if we haven't seen the full story yet?

Year 1 - we would have been better with Crowder than we ended up being with Conley. That's a fact.

Year 2 - TBD. I could give two ***** about Conley being given an All Star nod. Does he help us make a long playoff run or do we do the same thing Rubio would have provided?

When you bully Cy, have a point.

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Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
I still think that the Ingles $14 million extension is an overpay. How can anybody really defend that number when you compare it to the market? And I love Joe Ingles.

And how are my takes bad takes if we haven't seen the full story yet?

Year 1 - we would have been better with Crowder than we ended up being with Conley. That's a fact.

Year 2 - TBD. I could give two ***** about Conley being given an All Star nod. Does he help us make a long playoff run or do we do the same thing Rubio would have provided?

When you bully Cy, have a point.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
Not sure about the other stuff but Joe Ingles at 14M is perfectly appropriate and might be classified as a bit of a bargain.

Guys in that salary range:

Terrence Ross, Patty Mills, JJ Redick, Justise Winslow, Kelly Olynyk, Taurean Prince.... Robert Covington, Christian Wood, Marcus Smart might be better values but Joe's deal is solid and if we wanted to move him teams would line the **** up to give us something good in return.
 

Thee Idiotic Minivan K

Well-Known Member
I still think that the Ingles $14 million extension is an overpay. How can anybody really defend that number when you compare it to the market? And I love Joe Ingles.

And how are my takes bad takes if we haven't seen the full story yet?

Year 1 - we would have been better with Crowder than we ended up being with Conley. That's a fact.

Year 2 - TBD. I could give two ***** about Conley being given an All Star nod. Does he help us make a long playoff run or do we do the same thing Rubio would have provided?

When you bully Cy, have a point.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
I have a lot of ****** takes, but my god you make me sound like the smartest man alive and a none idiot. That my friend is hard as hell to do, you idiot!!
 

LoPo

Well-Known Member
Not sure about the other stuff but Joe Ingles at 14M is perfectly appropriate and might be classified as a bit of a bargain.

Guys in that salary range:

Terrence Ross, Patty Mills, JJ Redick, Justise Winslow, Kelly Olynyk, Taurean Prince.... Robert Covington, Christian Wood, Marcus Smart might be better values but Joe's deal is solid and if we wanted to move him teams would line the **** up to give us something good in return.

Those contracts are not a fair comparison. His $14 million hasn't even been given yet. He gets that next year. I don't know many NBA teams who are signing Ingles to $14. First off, not many teams have above the mid-level. Secondly, he is valuable, but not many teams are paying that much.

My point is simple - we didn't even look to see what his market is. We just paid him. It's like using a 2nd to trade a guy we might have just been able to trade to a team who wanted him.

It was unnecessary.

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latin jazz

Well-Known Member
I still think that the Ingles $14 million extension is an overpay. How can anybody really defend that number when you compare it to the market? And I love Joe Ingles.

And how are my takes bad takes if we haven't seen the full story yet?

Year 1 - we would have been better with Crowder than we ended up being with Conley. That's a fact.

Year 2 - TBD. I could give two ***** about Conley being given an All Star nod. Does he help us make a long playoff run or do we do the same thing Rubio would have provided?

When you bully Cy, have a point.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
Hi Lopo.

A few observations:
1) I don't think someone should call a guess a "fact". What version of Crowder are you referring to? Remember he was shooting 29% from 3 for Memphis before being traded to Miami. If not motivated, he can be bad, real bad. He also shoot in the low 30s for us. So it's fair to assume we would be worse with Crowder. And objectively, Conley is just the better player.
2) Conley gave us upside. He averaged 20ppg in the playoffs and his shooting/playmaking opened up opportunities for other players. Rubio placed a very low ceiling on our team. Teams would leave him open by design, destroying our whole spacing. We would never have been a good offensive team with him on the floor. And on defense, while Rubio played with energy, he wasn't a stopper. Conley is not great but at least plays smart team defense and is always in the right place.
3) Ingles' contract is fine. He is having the best season of his career. If you were a contender, would you pay Iggy 15M or Ingles 14M?
 
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LoPo

Well-Known Member
Hi Lopo.

A few observations:
1) I don't think someone should call a guess a "fact". What version of Crowder are you referring to? Remember he was shooting 29% from 3 for Memphis before being traded to Miami. If not motivated, he can be bad, real bad. He also shoot in the low 30s for us. So it's fair to assume we would be worse with Crowder.
2) Conley gave us upside. He averaged 20ppg in the playoffs and his shooting/playmaking opened up opportunities for other players. Rubio placed a very low ceiling on our team. Teams would leave him open by design, destroying our whole spacing. We would never be a good offensive team with him on the floor. And on defense, while Rubio played with energy, he wasn't a stopper. Conley is not great but at least plays smart team defense and is always in the right place.
3) Ingles' contract is fine. He is having the best season of his career. If you were a contender, would you pay Iggy 15M or Ingles 14M?
1. Crowder was a very good player for us and he did stuff that we still need. He is tough, plays hard, likes to defend. He is a reason Miami made such a run last year. He's a reason why Phoenix is so good.

2. Conley's scoring average is skewed because he got white hot in the game where everybody played out of their mind. I think it was Game 4. We won by a million. Denver switched to Monte Morris at PG in Game 5. What were his averages after Denver adjusted to Conley? The guy is good no doubt, but he should have been a reason we won last playoffs and he simply wasn't.

3. I'm not upset at Ingles' contract, but it did seem unnecessary to pay him that much. I still don't think any NBA team would give him $14 this summer when he turns 34. I love him and am willing to suck it up, but it still seems like an unnecessary overpay. Why would he leave? He's a legend here.

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jom2003

Well-Known Member
still going at this? lol.

the moment Rudy signed that max extension it is over. no point of discussing.

The jazz will do their best to keep Conley in the summer but if he signs elsewhere they will try to work out a sign-and-trade, which is likely the only scenario for a "Conley trade".
 

latin jazz

Well-Known Member
1. Crowder was a very good player for us and he did stuff that we still need. He is tough, plays hard, likes to defend. He is a reason Miami made such a run last year. He's a reason why Phoenix is so good.

2. Conley's scoring average is skewed because he got white hot in the game where everybody played out of their mind. I think it was Game 4. We won by a million. Denver switched to Monte Morris at PG in Game 5. What were his averages after Denver adjusted to Conley? The guy is good no doubt, but he should have been a reason we won last playoffs and he simply wasn't.

3. I'm not upset at Ingles' contract, but it did seem unnecessary to pay him that much. I still don't think any NBA team would give him $14 this summer when he turns 34. I love him and am willing to suck it up, but it still seems like an unnecessary overpay. Why would he leave? He's a legend here.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
You are getting a few things wrong:

1) The reason Phoenix is good is CP3. Crowder is a good player but he was terrible in Memphis and a mediocre shooter for us. I like his toughness and we miss it sometimes. But If you can choose between Conley and Crowder, you choose Conley, everytime.
2) I don't know where you get your numbers from on this. They are not skewed. Conley only had one bad shooting game in the series: game 7. He had 27, 26, 17 and 21 pts before then. Furthermore, Conley averaged like 17ppg since february and into the bubble on very good fg%. We lost that series because our lack of depth and perimeter defense (if you wan't to blame someone, look at Royce). And even in game 7, Mike played good D and provided excellent playmaking. I think you look at Conley with some kind of bias (I would call it Jom2003's syndrome)
3) There would be teams offering 14M or trading for him. He is the perfect player for a contending team. We offered 14M because we like to reward our guys/loyalty (that's something DL has talked about) and because he became a bit underpaid with a declining contract. His contract is fine.
 

White Chocolate

Respect All, Fear None
Contributor
You are getting a few things wrong:

1) The reason Phoenix is good is CP3. Crowder is a good player but he was terrible in Memphis and a mediocre shooter for us. I like his toughness and we miss it sometimes. But If you can choose between Conley and Crowder, you choose Conley, everytime.
2) I don't know where you get your numbers from on this. They are not skewed. Conley only had one bad shooting game in the series: game 7. He had 27, 26, 17 and 21 pts before then. Furthermore, Conley averaged like 17ppg since february and into the bubble on very good fg%. We lost that series because our lack of depth and perimeter defense (if you wan't to blame someone, look at Royce). And even in game 7, Mike played good D and provided excellent playmaking. I think you look at Conley with some kind of bias (I would call it Jom2003's syndrome)
3) There would be teams offering 14M or trading for him. He is the perfect player for a contending team. We offered 14M because we like to reward our guys/loyalty (that's something DL has talked about) and because he became a bit underpaid with a declining contract. His contract is fine.

Pretty much all of this. Also, Orlando was heavily pursing Ingles if I remember correctly.
 

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