Trade SZN

[jom2003]

still going at this? lol.

the moment Rudy signed that max extension it is over. no point of discussing.

The jazz will do their best to keep Conley in the summer but if he signs elsewhere they will try to work out a sign-and-trade, which is likely the only scenario for a "Conley trade".

 

[latin jazz]

1. Crowder was a very good player for us and he did stuff that we still need. He is tough, plays hard, likes to defend. He is a reason Miami made such a run last year. He's a reason why Phoenix is so good.

2. Conley's scoring average is skewed because he got white hot in the game where everybody played out of their mind. I think it was Game 4. We won by a million. Denver switched to Monte Morris at PG in Game 5. What were his averages after Denver adjusted to Conley? The guy is good no doubt, but he should have been a reason we won last playoffs and he simply wasn't.

3. I'm not upset at Ingles' contract, but it did seem unnecessary to pay him that much. I still don't think any NBA team would give him $14 this summer when he turns 34. I love him and am willing to suck it up, but it still seems like an unnecessary overpay. Why would he leave? He's a legend here.

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You are getting a few things wrong:

1) The reason Phoenix is good is CP3. Crowder is a good player but he was terrible in Memphis and a mediocre shooter for us. I like his toughness and we miss it sometimes. But If you can choose between Conley and Crowder, you choose Conley, everytime.
2) I don't know where you get your numbers from on this. They are not skewed. Conley only had one bad shooting game in the series: game 7. He had 27, 26, 17 and 21 pts before then. Furthermore, Conley averaged like 17ppg since february and into the bubble on very good fg%. We lost that series because our lack of depth and perimeter defense (if you wan't to blame someone, look at Royce). And even in game 7, Mike played good D and provided excellent playmaking. I think you look at Conley with some kind of bias (I would call it Jom2003's syndrome)
3) There would be teams offering 14M or trading for him. He is the perfect player for a contending team. We offered 14M because we like to reward our guys/loyalty (that's something DL has talked about) and because he became a bit underpaid with a declining contract. His contract is fine.

 

[Elizah Huge]

You are getting a few things wrong:

1) The reason Phoenix is good is CP3. Crowder is a good player but he was terrible in Memphis and a mediocre shooter for us. I like his toughness and we miss it sometimes. But If you can choose between Conley and Crowder, you choose Conley, everytime.
2) I don't know where you get your numbers from on this. They are not skewed. Conley only had one bad shooting game in the series: game 7. He had 27, 26, 17 and 21 pts before then. Furthermore, Conley averaged like 17ppg since february and into the bubble on very good fg%. We lost that series because our lack of depth and perimeter defense (if you wan't to blame someone, look at Royce). And even in game 7, Mike played good D and provided excellent playmaking. I think you look at Conley with some kind of bias (I would call it Jom2003's syndrome)
3) There would be teams offering 14M or trading for him. He is the perfect player for a contending team. We offered 14M because we like to reward our guys/loyalty (that's something DL has talked about) and because he became a bit underpaid with a declining contract. His contract is fine.

Pretty much all of this. Also, Orlando was heavily pursing Ingles if I remember correctly.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Pretty much all of this. Also, Orlando was heavily pursing Ingles if I remember correctly.

Didn’t they offer him something like 3-4 years and 55million $ contract?

 

[LoPo]

Pretty much all of this. Also, Orlando was heavily pursing Ingles if I remember correctly.

The $14 million was an extension that was given. I'm talking about the contract he will be paid next year. It's high. It's not too ridiculous after the year he has had, but when I made my post in the offseason, it was relevant. $14 million was a ton of money considering how Joe played in 2019-20 and the bubble playoffs.

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[LoPo]

You are getting a few things wrong:

1) The reason Phoenix is good is CP3. Crowder is a good player but he was terrible in Memphis and a mediocre shooter for us. I like his toughness and we miss it sometimes. But If you can choose between Conley and Crowder, you choose Conley, everytime.
2) I don't know where you get your numbers from on this. They are not skewed. Conley only had one bad shooting game in the series: game 7. He had 27, 26, 17 and 21 pts before then. Furthermore, Conley averaged like 17ppg since february and into the bubble on very good fg%. We lost that series because our lack of depth and perimeter defense (if you wan't to blame someone, look at Royce). And even in game 7, Mike played good D and provided excellent playmaking. I think you look at Conley with some kind of bias (I would call it Jom2003's syndrome)
3) There would be teams offering 14M or trading for him. He is the perfect player for a contending team. We offered 14M because we like to reward our guys/loyalty (that's something DL has talked about) and because he became a bit underpaid with a declining contract. His contract is fine.

You make valid arguments.

When I watched the bubble playoffs, I felt we got worse as a team through that series. We should have been up 2-0 if not for the lack of a stop here or there and a terrible 8 second violation. Game 3 we blew them out. Everybody was on fire. Mike especially. It was his only game out of the 5 where he had a positive +/- for those touting this year's +/-.

Games 4-7 was a slow regression down the toilet bowl. We needed defense that we simply didn't have on the roster. We needed a guy like Crowder. We still do. Doesn't mean we need a Crowder and no Conley, but we need a Crowder regardless.

I don't hate Conley. We did give up Crowder, Allen, Korver and 2 1st rounders for him while paying him almost $70 million over two years. I don't think last year he was worth it. I'm very encouraged by this year but the verdict is still out in my own personal just a fan opinion.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

The $14 million was an extension that was given. I'm talking about the contract he will be paid next year. It's high. It's not too ridiculous after the year he has had, but when I made my post in the offseason, it was relevant. $14 million was a ton of money considering how Joe played in 2019-20 and the bubble playoffs.

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Doubling down is the issue... because he’s get right around that number for a playoff team and if he got MLE he likely gets it for more years. If you can’t look back at that deal now and say it’s more than fair then you haven’t been watching. Joe is our 4th most important player and the type of guy that is so tough to find/replace. They had their reasons on the timing... it isn’t always about squeezing every penny out of a player or contract.

 

[LoPo]

Doubling down is the issue... because he’s get right around that number for a playoff team and if he got MLE he likely gets it for more years. If you can’t look back at that deal now and say it’s more than fair then you haven’t been watching. Joe is our 4th most important player and the type of guy that is so tough to find/replace. They had their reasons on the timing... it isn’t always about squeezing every penny out of a player or contract.

I agree. Like I said earlier - at the time we gave him the $14 million extension and through all last season and post season, it looked like a severe overpay. Going into this season, it still looked like a poor decision considering where the JC, Rudy and Don extensions were taking us financially.


Now, it looks fine. $14 million is a lot, but we can stomach it. He has been worth it this year no doubt. I was wrong about the Jingles extension.

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[NAOS]

Doubling down is the issue... because he’s get right around that number for a playoff team and if he got MLE he likely gets it for more years. If you can’t look back at that deal now and say it’s more than fair then you haven’t been watching. Joe is our 4th most important player and the type of guy that is so tough to find/replace. They had their reasons on the timing... it isn’t always about squeezing every penny out of a player or contract.

There’s definitely an argument that Joe is our 3rd most important player. If you put a gun to my head and asked me to choose Ingles or Conley, I’m prolly gonna say Joe.

 

[fishonjazz]

There’s definitely an argument that Joe is our 3rd most important player. If you put a gun to my head and asked me to choose Ingles or Conley, I’m prolly gonna say Joe.

I would definitely choose ingles over Conley.

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[LogGrad98]

There’s definitely an argument that Joe is our 3rd most important player. If you put a gun to my head and asked me to choose Ingles or Conley, I’m prolly gonna say Joe.

This. I think we are far better with Ingles starting. I think we'd be a better team with Conley coming off the bench.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

I would definitely choose ingles over Conley.

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This...

However with the balance and wits Joe is playing with right now, I would argue he is in front of Clarkson on the list of most important players on the squad. He and JC are VALUABLE players and Joe in particular is an absolute joy to watch.

In all my years watching the Jazz, I am not sure I have enjoyed watching any player more tbh. Paul Millsap, Bryon Russell, Horney, and I'm sure I am missing someone else were all joys, but I don't think any top the unassuming, unathletic, ultra efficient, sweet shooting, trash talking Aussie... Joe Ingles. I will miss him when he is gone.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

This. I think we are far better with Ingles starting. I think we'd be a better team with Conley coming off the bench.

Last year yes. This year?

Bogie is the new Conley. He can't shoot which makes him more Niang - than Neeeeeyang!

 

[DasJazz]

I miss Deron Williams.

 

[LogGrad98]

Last year yes. This year?

Bogie is the new Conley. He can't shoot which makes him more Niang - than Neeeeeyang!

Bogie is shooting 38% from 3. His biggest problem is turnovers, not straight shooting.

 

[infection]

Bogie is shooting 38% from 3. His biggest problem is turnovers, not straight shooting.

I haven’t seen as many TOs from him the past couple weeks. Maybe I’ll have to go look at his game logs.

 

[NAOS]

I haven’t seen as many TOs from him the past couple weeks. Maybe I’ll have to go look at his game logs.

He always has a couple of the same maddening TOs where he gets stripped in the lane. The unending feeling of this kind of turnover from him makes it feel like he’s turning it over all the time.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I haven’t seen as many TOs from him the past couple weeks. Maybe I’ll have to go look at his game logs.

He’s struggling... they are the nuclear turnovers. Like when Exum would turn it over and it turned into a layup every time. Everything is hard... he’s so robotic... he’s hesitant on his shot... I’m worried.

 

[Cptgrnlngs22]

If the jazz were to trade Bogey and some assets this summer in an attempt to improve would it increase our odds of a chip?

Also if we have to cut a salary to keep Conley is there anyone to cut that if trading places with Conley would be worth cutting?

Looking at the nets it feels like we are back in the era of the ‘16-‘17 dubs. One step behind again.


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[NAOS]

If the Blazers flame out fast, I wonder if you could turn Bogie and a first into Covington.