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Traditional PG not needed in Quin's offense

Eenie-Meenie said:
I'm not talking about those games -- am I? No, this relates to last night and what happened. The other games have absolutely nothing to do with the point that I'm making. As I have said many times before -- all Ricky needs to do is set up the offense, find the open man, and play good defense. Shooting the ball is not necessary. But of course if he has a good opportunity, he has to take it. At the same time, he shouldn't be controlling the ball and taking 5 or 6 shots in a row and missing every one.
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Isn't setting up the offense and finding the open man the definition of a point guards job?

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Eenie-Meenie said:
I think last night showed that the traditional PG who dominates the ball not only is unnecessary in Quin's offense but actually a detriment. My main complaint with Ricky has been that he controls the ball too much. The pass and cut offense of Quin requires each player to give up the ball when there is no opening either to shoot or penetrate. The third quarter last night was a good illustration. What those who penetrate need to do is find the open man if they don't have a good opportunity to score. Ingles does this to perfection.
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OMG, seriously!! Yesterday's results were no different then the last 9 or so games. Ricky has finally figured out the offense. He's been more decisive with his decision making and moving the ball driving and getting to the foul line, and is showing incredible chemistry with his teammates, the young rook in particular, and on top of that he lays it on the line and plays hard and competes every ****ing night, and yet you have the ****ing adasity to say the jazz are better off without him? GTFO!!
 
candrew said:
Jazz had plenty of problems at the end of game handling Portland's (a lousy defensive team) pressure without a PG on the court. If it were a closer game it could have been a different outcome.

And these events don't occur in a vacuum - other teams see this and will adjust accordingly.
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@Eenie-Meenie

This is the substantive argument against your premise. When Portland started pressing against the Jazz the game started looking really ugly and had the lead been closer to 10 with 5 min left I would have been worried. Rubio would have been much better at handling the press, probably so well they would have stopped trying it.
 
I don't discount Ricky's effort or improved play. My point is that the offense works better when the ball moves and doesn't stagnate. Ok, I admit I'm still not in love with Ricky's game and I don't think we'd lose much if we had Neto playing the point instead of Ricky.

Let me elaborate on what I'm not in love with -- it's that Ricky is only an average shooter and offensive player, but at times, and too much in my opinion, he begins to take an excessive number of shots. If he were a good offensive player, if he were James Harden, that might be different. You want your good offensive players to be taking the shots, not your Ricky Rubios. You don't want Ricky to lead the team in shots taken, which has happened on occasion because teams are letting him shoot. This is how teams are playing the Jazz. But it hasn't worked because he has been making them. How long do you expect this to continue? I still don't have confidence in his shot like I would if Jingling were taking the shot. So, that's it. I don't want him to dominate the ball and take the majority of shots, which he has done at times during the winning streak. And last night no one was doing this and you saw the results in the third quarter.
 
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Eenie-Meenie said:
This is not a dig on Ricky but an observation of what makes the team perform to its highest potential. This was on display last night. Ricky didn't play but the team still blew out the Blazers in the third quarter.
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And nearly lost it in the 4th. The team can't perform at its highest level without Rubio. Without Rubio, the team can play "well enough" to scape out a win against very good competition, as long they play well and Gobert is healthy.
 
Ellipse said:
And nearly lost it in the 4th. The team can't perform at its highest level without Rubio. Without Rubio, the team can play "well enough" to scape out a win against very good competition, as long they play well and Gobert is healthy.
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This is not about bringing the ball up against the press -- this is something he can do. It's about him shooting too bleeping much and dribbling the ball too long.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
I don't discount Ricky's effort or improved play. My point is that the offense works better when the ball moves and doesn't stagnate. Ok, I admit I'm still not in love with Ricky's game and I don't think we'd lose much if we had Neto playing the point instead of Ricky.
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Of course the offense works better when the ball doesn't stagnate. That is Quin's offense afterall...move the ball for an open shot. And the ball doesn't stagnate with Rubio, that' crazy. He's always has pushed the ball and as he becomes ingratiated to his new team, he's making the right plays more and more. I like Neto, but Rubio is a special talent, not to mention his defense. The team is much more deadly with him at the point than a guy like Neto over the long haul.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
So far, no one has created a substantive argument against me. The point I was making was not a direct criticism of Ricky -- but a basic point that he should moderate his tendency to dominate the ball which stagnates the offense. There have been PGs who could do this effectively like Stockton and especially Steve Nash but both were excellent shooters, especially Nash who is one of the NBA's all-time best shooters. Today you have Harden. Even Curry who is probably the greatest shooter in NBA history does not dominate the ball that much.
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There is no argument to be made when you start with a premise we all reject. End of discussion.
 
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