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Trump abandons Kurdish allies to Turkish invasion

lauriandres said:
Again, why should i or my country due the Trump's actions (mainly words and orders) lose a trust to US army leaders? By leaders i mean persons who are considered gurus in US army and do not have any military medals or honors due to beautiful eyes or right connections. I highly doubt that for example those who are specialists in Navy a la captains and officers in aircraft carrier are now thanks to Trump somehow totally clueless when doing missions. A la crashing big carrier in Suez Canal or do not know anymore the difference between A10 Warthog and Super Hornet.
Regarding the relationships between Kurds and Turkey - IMHO the best solution would be that again people from other countries show the displeasure with their wallets - i.e not visiting Turkey as tourist.
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Why would other countries ally with the USA is we cut and run and let them be massacred?
 
The Thriller said:
Exactly. Just two days ago @Jazzta was denying that Russia interfered in our 2016 election. I understand back in 2016 for ignorant people falling for Facebook ads spreading disinformation. But people who still claim that Russia didn’t attack us are being purposefully deceitful.
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purposesefully deceitful or just plain dumb. There really is no third choice
 
silesian said:
purposesefully deceitful or just plain dumb. There really is no third choice
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I agree. You’re calling his **** out.

When you deny that Russia interfered with the election in 2016 and claim it was just a “conspiracy” as he did two days ago you’re being either deceitful or dumb. There’s really no other explanation and we should stop surgery coating it.
 
silesian said:
Why would other countries ally with the USA is we cut and run and let them be massacred?
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Well, the same reason why some politicians in EU want to have warm relationships with Russia? :)
By your logic our country should abandon relationships with several European countries because they have caused problems in the past.
Where is the evidence, that US is not anymore co-operating with Japan and South Korea? Are you saying that all the military plans should be public? I might not be the brightest in geography but currently US still has quite large bases in Yokosuka and Okinawa? Or they fake (because according to you US is abandoning allies)?
I am pretty sure that it is kind of impossible in this forum to find a correct answer why the situations between Kurds and its neighbors is so full of hatred. I am not sure if the middle east would calm down should the Kurds get somewhat peacefully parts of Syria, Turkey and Iran and form their own country. Should Iran state "yes, we give part of our country to Kurds, but US must deactivate all sanctions" - would that offer get accepted by both democrats and republicans?
 
lauriandres said:
Well, the same reason why some politicians in EU want to have warm relationships with Russia? :)
By your logic our country should abandon relationships with several European countries because they have caused problems in the past.
Where is the evidence, that US is not anymore co-operating with Japan and South Korea? Are you saying that all the military plans should be public? I might not be the brightest in geography but currently US still has quite large bases in Yokosuka and Okinawa? Or they fake (because according to you US is abandoning allies)?
I am pretty sure that it is kind of impossible in this forum to find a correct answer why the situations between Kurds and its neighbors is so full of hatred. I am not sure if the middle east would calm down should the Kurds get somewhat peacefully parts of Syria, Turkey and Iran and form their own country. Should Iran state "yes, we give part of our country to Kurds, but US must deactivate all sanctions" - would that offer get accepted by both democrats and republicans?
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we are talking about whether or not to maintain a nominal presence <100 soldiers and air support for allies or not. Your arguments seem to be for completely extraneous decisions.

You’ll have to explain the similarities between normalizing relations with post war japan and abandoning your current allies to be massacred. Seems like an apples to orangutans analogy.
 
Stoked said:
I’ve met @Jazzta a few times and he’s neither deceitful or dumb. He deserves better than this characterization. Stop
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I was talking about anyone who still believes that Putin did not interfere to elect trump. Maybe I should have added brainwashed to the list.

I’ll reconsider this characterization about anyone who acknowledges that Putin meddled.
 
silesian said:
we are talking about whether or not to maintain a nominal presence <100 soldiers and air support for allies or not. Your arguments seem to be for completely extraneous decisions.

You’ll have to explain the similarities between normalizing relations with post war japan and abandoning your current allies to be massacred. Seems like an apples to orangutans analogy.
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Well, hopefully other Kurds are not just looking at it from the sidelines. According to Wikipedia, the total population is about 40 million - isn't it partly also responsibility of other Kurds living in Iran and Turkey or their friends in neighboring countries step up? Also, should Europe want it - they have plenty of possibilities to step in - whether it is worth for the European countries - is another story.
I guess that as long as Europeans and Russians like to visit Turkey, nothing happens. With all the interconnect stuff (economy, military relationships etc) i would not like to be chief or main decision maker in the strategic-tactical department of US armed forces. Although Trump is the de-jure decision maker, i presume and hope that in real life all the de-facto decisions are made by much more competent persons.
 
I would like all the US troops to withdraw from the Middle East and come back home. However, there was no dignity in the way the Kurd situation was handled. Turkey presses Trump and he just folds and breaks the promise that was made to the Kurds of protecting them and does a quick retreat. Not a good look, not a good look at all.

The sooner we get a non-interventionist President, or party, the better. What a bloody mess.
 
Thanks Donald



but at least Donald didn’t let little things like the lives of the Kurds who fought ISIS for us get in the way of his personal business.



Are Donald’s supporters tired of winning yet?

Tom nails it:
 
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Jazzta said:
It’s a tragedy, Trump handled this knowing well that this would happen. Our foreign policy is currently a disgrace. Has been for years.
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I had to delete that video, as it was deleted on YouTube for some reason....
 
An Op Ed, in "Foreign Policy" by Mazloum Abdi, commander in chief of Kurdish forces in Syria...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/13/kurds-assad-syria-russia-putin-turkey-genocide/

"The world first heard of us, the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), amid the chaos of our country’s civil war. I serve as our commander in chief. The SDF has 70,000 soldiers who have fought against jihadi extremism, ethnic hatred, and the oppression of women since 2015.

They have become a very disciplined, professional fighting force. They never fired a single bullet toward Turkey. U.S. soldiers and officers now know us well and always praise our effectiveness and skill.

I have always told our forces, this war is ours! The jihadi terrorists of the Islamic State came to Syria from all over the world. We are the ones who should fight them, because they have occupied our lands, looted our villages, killed our children, and enslaved our women.

We lost 11,000 soldiers, some of our best fighters and commanders, to rescue our people from this grave danger. I have also always instructed our forces that the Americans and other allied forces are our partners, and so we should always make sure that they are not harmed."
 
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