Utah Jazz @ Portland Bushwhackers, 8:30PM Mountain on ESPN

[Saint Cy of JFC]

LOL who cares about Grayson? Our 10th man isn't the issue

What else can you take away from this game?

Portland got super hot and beat the Jazz. The most interesting thing to happen is Allen playing.

 

[fishonjazz]

This game is like my relationships. It starts off pretty bad, but I stick with it with a lot of red flags, then things start looking hopeful, then I get crushed and end up walking away. I never learn from my mistakes I'll go back to her, probably Friday.

Lol


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[LoPo]

For his defense and floor generalness.

I couldn’t post that and keep a straight face lol


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Hahaha. So true.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

That felt like a November game where all the perimeter defense was just a step too far away on every shot.

 

[LoPo]

That felt like a November game where all the perimeter defense was just a step too far away on every shot.

Yep. Portland was getting the shots they wanted. It was deflating moment after deflating moment. Leonard played the game of his life.

I wonder what their coach promised them before the game. Portland has a random 5 day break after last night's game. Those Blazers looked more motivated than my kids when I tell them I'll give them a milkshake if they clean their room.

 

[Keefe]

Just one loss. Oh well.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Greyson is slow. He isn't quick. He wont ever adjust to game speed. Put Allen against any starting point in the NBA and he's toast. He's to short to play the 2 guard so he's going to have to play a majority of his minutes at the point.

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He was okay last night. I don’t get the bust talk... he has to get enough time to get comfortable. He’s not slow... lots of guys come into the league older and still need time to adjust. Buddy shield had a slow start.

The Allen criticism is silly. If his shooting percentages are still garbage in a year then you can start worrying.

 

[mellow]

That blazers coach is pretty good

 

[jazzETX]

Based on what?

based on nothing, he just hates grayson no matter what he does

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also these past two Blazers games show Exums value. Jazz need him in a playoff series vs elite scoring guards

 

[jazzETX]

just watched replay of game this AM and reading through this thread. I don't know why anyone even bothers replying to jom2003 or nateboz, they completely hate allen no matter what he does. this is a 22/23 y/o rookie who no matter how much age or college experience he has still needs time to adjust to the nba game like any other rookie. save for 2 possessions, his defense in this game was fine. he showed the willingness and ability to shoot 3's, he got into the paint at will against multiple defenders and basically got any shot he wanted, and he passed it really well. what more can you ask of a rookie who barely gets any sporadic minutes and still is finding his comfort level on the court? other rookie SGs who struggled but who were still getting good minutes and being allowed to play through tough stretches are now looking better in shamet and huerter. grayson would be doing equally as well or better if he had been getting the same opportunity, but this team's guard/wing depth and playoff aspirations have kept him on the bench. he'd be getting alot of minutes on other teams. his offensive skillset is clearly there and ability to shoot/attack and play both PG/SG make him very valuable. he just needs the minutes.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Grayson Allen is a scrub

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

just watched replay of game this AM and reading through this thread. I don't know why anyone even bothers replying to jom2003 or nateboz, they completely hate allen no matter what he does. this is a 22/23 y/o rookie who no matter how much age or college experience he has still needs time to adjust to the nba game like any other rookie. save for 2 possessions, his defense in this game was fine. he showed the willingness and ability to shoot 3's, he got into the paint at will against multiple defenders and basically got any shot he wanted, and he passed it really well. what more can you ask of a rookie who barely gets any sporadic minutes and still is finding his comfort level on the court? other rookie SGs who struggled but who were still getting good minutes and being allowed to play through tough stretches are now looking better in shamet and huerter. grayson would be doing equally as well or better if he had been getting the same opportunity, but this team's guard/wing depth and playoff aspirations have kept him on the bench. he'd be getting alot of minutes on other teams. his offensive skillset is clearly there and ability to shoot/attack and play both PG/SG make him very valuable. he just needs the minutes.

Huerter looks really good, but he was gone... I'm sure if it was down to those two we would have taken him though.

Shamet is fine, but he's small and plays off the gravity of their dudes. Grayson looks a bit overwhelmed... he took a year to adjust at Duke too... the skills are there and the athleticism is decent. I didn't like the pick at the time, but he's looked fine to me... don't care how old he is... still a rookie.

 

[jazzETX]

Huerter looks really good, but he was gone... I'm sure if it was down to those two we would have taken him though.

Shamet is fine, but he's small and plays off the gravity of their dudes. Grayson looks a bit overwhelmed... he took a year to adjust at Duke too... the skills are there and the athleticism is decent. I didn't like the pick at the time, but he's looked fine to me... don't care how old he is... still a rookie.

all good points, but i wasn't referencing the draft. i was just comparing all 3 of their situations and it's clear that both of them were struggling early on but getting the chance to play and get better which they have. grayson hasn't had near enough of the same consistent minutes to get comfortable.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Joe wasn't a big scorer, he was a positive net player on the floor though. He did a ton of little things and was a really good passer that helped the offense. His defense has always been good too.

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Joe started in his rookie year, and no one really questioned it because he looked fine.

Huerter looks really good, but he was gone... I'm sure if it was down to those two we would have taken him though.

Shamet is fine, but he's small and plays off the gravity of their dudes. Grayson looks a bit overwhelmed... he took a year to adjust at Duke too... the skills are there and the athleticism is decent. I didn't like the pick at the time, but he's looked fine to me... don't care how old he is... still a rookie.

Treating all rookies as the same is stupid tbh. A rookie of Dante’s resume vs. Luka Doncic’s resume obviously creates two very different sets of expectations, and deservingly so. Rookies aren’t a monolith.

Grayson has a good three point shot, and....okay vision I guess? But if I’m being honest the second Raul and Dante come back he should get kicked to the D League for the rest of the season. He is a complete pylon on defence, even by rookie standards.

—

As for this chat of consistency— I find that that is more relevant for offensive confidence than defensive lapses. He still practices against NBA players, he has enough exposure to not make the mistakes he’s making

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Joe started in his rookie year, and no one really questioned it because he looked fine.



Treating all rookies as the same is stupid tbh. A rookie of Dante’s resume vs. Luka Doncic’s resume obviously creates two very different sets of expectations, and deservingly so. Rookies aren’t a monolith.

Grayson has a good three point shot, and....okay vision I guess? But if I’m being honest the second Raul and Dante come back he should get kicked to the D League for the rest of the season. He is a complete pylon on defence, even by rookie standards.

—

As for this chat of consistency— I find that that is more relevant for offensive confidence than defensive lapses. He still practices against NBA players, he has enough exposure to not make the mistakes he’s making

The defense is concerning. He has offensive skill. He can shoot (the percentages are bad right now... but it's more about consistent minutes and such). He is good on the pump fake and drive and is consistently getting into the lane... just hasn't figured out what to do when he's there.

Defense in practice is different than in NBA games. He will get better there... I doubt he is ever really good. Reddick was a sieve as a young player and found his way... guys that work figure it out.

Allen will have an NBA career... talk of being a bust is so friggin premature and based on box score watching rather than actual basketball game watching.

 

[jazzETX]

Joe started in his rookie year, and no one really questioned it because he looked fine.



Treating all rookies as the same is stupid tbh. A rookie of Dante’s resume vs. Luka Doncic’s resume obviously creates two very different sets of expectations, and deservingly so. Rookies aren’t a monolith.

Grayson has a good three point shot, and....okay vision I guess? But if I’m being honest the second Raul and Dante come back he should get kicked to the D League for the rest of the season. He is a complete pylon on defence, even by rookie standards.

—

As for this chat of consistency— I find that that is more relevant for offensive confidence than defensive lapses. He still practices against NBA players, he has enough exposure to not make the mistakes he’s making

this would be a valid assessment if his defense was as bad as it was early in the season, but it's clearly miles better from where he started to the point where he's not a regular pylon as you described it. 3-7 min here and there mixed in w/ DNPs is no good for his development or confidence. there's a reason he looked so good in summer league, preseason, and g-league, and that is because of good PT and confidence. i actually wouldn't mind him going to the g-league when those guys come back so he can continue to get time to get comfortable on the court.

 

[jazzETX]

The defense is concerning. He has offensive skill. He can shoot (the percentages are bad right now... but it's more about consistent minutes and such). He is good on the pump fake and drive and is consistently getting into the lane... just hasn't figured out what to do when he's there.

Defense in practice is different than in NBA games. He will get better there... I doubt he is ever really good. Reddick was a sieve as a young player and found his way... guys that work figure it out.

Allen will have an NBA career... talk of being a bust is so friggin premature and based on box score watching rather than actual basketball game watching.

i suspect this is what most people are doing (and that goes for all rookies, not just allen) rather than using their eyes.

 

[Deleted member 848]

The defense is concerning. He has offensive skill. He can shoot (the percentages are bad right now... but it's more about consistent minutes and such). He is good on the pump fake and drive and is consistently getting into the lane... just hasn't figured out what to do when he's there.

Defense in practice is different than in NBA games. He will get better there... I doubt he is ever really good. Reddick was a sieve as a young player and found his way... guys that work figure it out.

Allen will have an NBA career... talk of being a bust is so friggin premature and based on box score watching rather than actual basketball game watching.

Will he figure it out— probably. Jury is still out on that. Players improve. I dunno— with him his style of play on d just doesn’t pass the eye test for me.

 

[jazzETX]

Will he figure it out— probably. Jury is still out on that. Players improve. I dunno— with him his style of play on d just doesn’t pass the eye test for me.

go watch a a couple games from early in the season and watch his last 5-7 games played. defense is clearly far ahead of where he was.