What's new
By:

Utah Jazz vs Timber Pups Game Thread (7pm)

Ostertag>Duncan said:
Yeah guess it's kinda a dumb point, comparing %s in the last two minutes or whatever is a better argument. Guess my point being I've never seen anyone consider someone like Kobe not clutch or known to take over games but he's also shot his team out of just as many close games and he's kept or won them for his team. Being a ball dominant player isn't always the answer and playing within the offense to get highest % overall is the smartest approach and I think guys like Hayward take that approach much like LeBron. Lots of people see them as hiding away from the moment but in most cases theyre doing executing what's the most probable scheme to get their team back in it or running a play that gives them highest % last second shot

Sent from my XT1575 using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree with you 100%. It's just narratives people create and put on players. It's like when someone gets labeled a good defender, then they become a good defender for life. Once you get labeled "clutch" people always view you as clutch even if the stats suggest otherwise. If you get labeled as not being clutch or someone who shrinks, basically the only way to shed that is to win a ring.

Wes is a perfect example of this. He even said "I dont care about stats". He has bought into a narrative and now is unwilling to waver from it even if he has seen examples of his delusion being false.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Nah, Jordan's was actually pretty high on buzzer beating game winners, like right at 50% or near it.

Kobe's was super low though, like 20%
IDK about Jordan's percentage on clutch shots in general though, like under 24 seconds within 1 possession either way. Whenever I google it all I find is buzzer beating game winners.
Click to expand...


I don't know the stats but i watched a lot of Jordan in the late 80s early 90s and he would easily be the best clutch player, i remember seeing him hit a pretty good % of those. Maybe the only other guy in his league was Larry Bird but those two are the exceptions. Pretty much every other player Kobe included blows in the clutch compared to normal percentages. Gordon is actually pretty good in the last couple minutes. Them's the facts.
 
Jordan is overrated. His highlights were over played and the media wasnt allowed to cover his shortcomings. The guy was amazing, but that idol worship gets old.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
The Jazz miss Sloan's toughness.

Quin is not capable to instil grit to the team in some situations. In addition he is too diplomatic with the refs.
 
DownUnder said:
I can't stand the guy, i think he's a toxic c.... but no he is not overrated.
Click to expand...
"The ultimate winner" because he was 6-0 in the finals. Media doesnt tell you he had a losing season in all 5 seasons without Pippen and Phil. So without his Robin, he was less than Tmac in terms of wins.

He was awesome, but overrated. In the current climate of media, he wouldn't have lasted.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
LoPo said:
"The ultimate winner" because he was 6-0 in the finals. Media doesnt tell you he had a losing season in all 5 seasons without Pippen and Phil. So without his Robin, he was less than Tmac in terms of wins.

He was awesome, but overrated. In the current climate of media, he wouldn't have lasted.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...


how many of his games did you watch ?

and tell me who was on his teams that were losing ? the Wizards ? the early Bulls teams were junk.

Phil Jackson is the one who is completely overrated. He's nothing without having coached MJ, Shaq & Kobe.

i agree that Pippen was an underrated factor tho.
 
I watched the entire thing. I'm almost 40. The guy was amazing, but Pippen was the best defender on the team (according to Phil) and MJ got away with everything. The NBA needed MJ so they coddled him.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
LoPo said:
I watched the entire thing. I'm almost 40. The guy was amazing, but Pippen was the best defender on the team (according to Phil) and MJ got away with everything. The NBA needed MJ so they coddled him.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...

the NBA certainly rode his coattails hard for sure. Let him get away with all kinds of rubbish.

But he was undeniably clutch way above nearly any other player. Him and Bird Bird in the late 80's clutch % would be ridiculous
 
I agree. Jordan was more clutch than the average player. He wasn't Robert Horry clutch but he was above most others.

I just get tired of the idol worship MJ gets. He scored a ton of points in an era where nobody played good perimeter defense. He was the first of his kind and was blessed to play on amazing teams with an amazing coach and GM.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top