Utah's long journey to relevance

[♪alt13]

Money is not the only factor for a few select players. Consider Stockton making $7 mil while Karl made $19. In 2014 Miami had 3 players over $18 mil, the spurs didn't have anybody over $12 mil. This year Duncan only makes $5 mil. Contrast that with the Kobe mentality.

The Jazz know they will have to get some people on a discount. I think Favors knew he could get more money elsewhere, for example.

Those teams were winners, big time. The current era Jazz aren't that.

 

[ijazz]

Nah the rules favor us much more with a guy like Hayward. If it was Durant or a megastar I could see them passing on the extra year but a borderline all star can't pass on that dough. We still control things. I'd trade Hayward if it was a robbery, which could be on the table based on a theory windhorst had on the Lowe post, but short of that I'd pass and look to improve the parts around the main pieces. The theory windhorst had is that there are no sellers and teams building up treasure troves of assets. If Boston offered 4 first rounders for Winslow would they offer the Bkn pick plus a couple others?

We control nothing with Hayward. He is an unrestricted FA after NEXT season. 120 more games left as a Jazzman give or take....

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

So, would you guys trade Hayward and Favors for Blake Griffin - Jamal Crawford as the principal pieces in a trade?

https://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hxkokpb

The Clippers win more without Blake than with him. He just punched a Clipper employee. The ship is sinking in LA. This gets them young with two budding stars. We get the better player. They get two for 1. I am not saying I am for doing this, but just wondering. Griffin and Gobert makes for a great dynamic on offense/defense. Jazz then build around Griffin, Gobert, and Hood. I would say it's a pretty fair deal all around.

 

[da ThRONe]

We shouldn't have waited til the end of Favs/Hayward rookie deals to rebuild. We shouldn't have lost Sap and Al for nothing. We can't afford our players going forward and they are fighting for the 8th seed. If we wait to sell their value will be diminished. We should sell now and rebuild the right way with assets. If we wait we risk being in the same position in with Rudy/Hood in 6 years as we are with G-time/Favs now.

I agree 100%. Teams that aren't big FA hotspots need to take advantage of the benefits of rookie contracts.

 

[vegas]

Those teams were winners, big time. The current era Jazz aren't that.

And they never will be if they don't figure out a way to sign cheap contracts. I'm way more optimistic than most that the Jazz can achieve this and are already taking the steps to do so. I'm simply saying I reject some of the assumptions than are made when projecting options for building the team.

 

[♪alt13]

And they never will be if they don't figure out a way to sign cheap contracts. I'm way more optimistic than most that the Jazz can achieve this and are already taking the steps to do so. I'm simply saying I reject some of the assumptions than are made when projecting options for building the team.

There is a way. You need to be a winner while you have guys on rookie and sophomore contracts. We need to win right now. Guys have to buy in today. You have to win as you're developing guys not after they have developed. You need vet value contract depth, which we didn't get because we were busy bakking.

Alternatively you can draft a superstar.

We didn't do either, so we are stuck.

 

[MDAV28]

You're forgetting his player option(Thanx MJ). Why would he play an extra season at 16 million if he doesn't have to? He won't.

Does he sign a five year deal with Utah in 2017 at 30%?

Does he sign a 4 year deal here or somewhere else with a player option in the 3rd year at which point he would be eligible for 5 year 35%?

Does he sign somewhere else with a player option after the first season at which point that team could offer him 5 year 30%?

And perhaps the question we should be asking is should the Jazz pay G-time 30% of team salary in the first place? Favors is going to want real money next time around and you know Rudy won't settle for less than max. That's potentially 85% of the cap before paying anyone other than those 3, yikes.

You're grasping. All options leave money on the table and he is betting on himself. Players will more often than not go for the guaranteed deals and if somebody wants to sign him to a max with player options go for it they obviously value him as a superstar which means we as a team are probably winning anyways with Hayward our superstar

 

[♪alt13]

Also everybody needs to quit blaming our "market". When you have guys leave the team but retain a home here that says something. The Wasatch is a great place to live and right now SLC is developing into a better city than it has ever been. This is a Jazz problem not an SLC problem.

Everything Utahn is doing better than it was 10 years ago except the Jazz.

 

[vegas]

Also everybody needs to quit blaming our "market". When you have guys leave the team but retain a home here that says something. The Wasatch is a great place to live and right now SLC is developing into a better city than it has ever been.

This is exactly what we have to sell, play to our strengths. Good community, cool outdoor stuff, not polluted, people love you cuz it's the only team in town, media is pretty friendly etc etc. There are guys out there that hate their coach, their system, their city that will be enticed by those job perks.

imho if the players hadn't bought in, we would have already collapsed at this point. I agree we need to win more, we clearly agree the FO did not set this team up to win on purpose this year. Maybe sneak into the playoffs, but nothing more than that. Chemistry is good and tons of players are having kids. All of this is not happening by accident. Moves will be made, but I don't think they are in a rush in this very moment in the same way the forum is.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This is exactly what we have to sell, play to our strengths. Good community, cool outdoor stuff, not polluted, people love you cuz it's the only team in town, media is pretty friendly etc etc. There are guys out there that hate their coach, their system, their city that will be enticed by those job perks.

imho if the players hadn't bought in, we would have already collapsed at this point. I agree we need to win more, we clearly agree the FO did not set this team up to win on purpose this year. Maybe sneak into the playoffs, but nothing more than that. Chemistry is good and tons of players are having kids. All of this is not happening by accident. Moves will be made, but I don't think they are in a rush in this very moment in the same way the forum is.

Many of my friend is California claim Utah is a mecca for hot young girls. If you grew up in Sacramento you might agree.

 

[Miggs]

Rip Hamilton running those screens were the Pistons championship teams #1 go-to option right?? Jamal Murray can do that, and thats playing off the ball, he's better with the ball in his hands..

Dragan Bender has a ton of talent and he projects to be a player like Pau, so I wouldn't rule out him being a top option. He's crafty and very coordinated, and legitimately 7'1".

Skal has a wicked repotiore of near 'go-to' level moves, just needs to keep adding strength and polish to his game, and he'd be a great top option, you can't put him on the FT line.

Jaylen Brown with an NBA range J is a scary thought, he'd be great value and could put up an easy 15ppg with that adjustment. I wouldn't rule it out either.

I loooooooooove Bender from what I've seen. If the 4th pick comes up and he still hasn't been taken, would you trade the 10th pick, Burks, Burke and a future 1st rounder (2017 top 15 protected...) to move up to get him?

Exum-Neto
Hood-Bazemore
Hayward-Ingles
Favors-Lyles
Gobert-Bender-Withey

That makes us awful thin on the wings though.

 

[Miggs]

Wow.. you're kidding me?


Just goes to show how talented DWill was...

What in the holy hell are you talk about?