Voter Suppression and Why The Republicans Love It So Much?


Gameface

IT'S TIME TO GET YOUR GAMEFACE ON!
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
It's all ridiculous. The MLB has moved the all star game from Atlanta to Denver now in retaliation, punishing the minority businesses in Atlanta to the tune of 100 million estimated. Now the largely white population (81%) of Denver will reap the rewards. When private entities start trying to dictate politics like this, and end up screwing things up worse, you know the country is spiraling down.
Voter suppression IS NOT politics. It is abuse. It is anti-American and anti-democratic. All people who care about the U.S. should stand up against voter suppression, including businesses.

If the only way for you to stay in power is to suppress votes you shouldn't be in power.
 


gandalfe

Well-Known Member
It's all ridiculous. The MLB has moved the all star game from Atlanta to Denver now in retaliation, punishing the minority businesses in Atlanta to the tune of 100 million estimated. Now the largely white population (81%) of Denver will reap the rewards. When private entities start trying to dictate politics like this, and end up screwing things up worse, you know the country is spiraling down.
Very nice of you to spout the GOP talking points.
 

AlaskanAssassin

Well-Known Member
I look at the idea of voter suppression the same way I look at voter fraud. Neither of these two things have a significant or material impact on election results. They both might very well exist, but it's not making a difference in elections.

Go on a conservative message board and you will read comments from a lot of idiots suggesting that the Democrats are trying to steal elections by allowing non-citizens and dead people to vote. I see the same thing here, just on the opposite side of the isle.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
Voter suppression IS NOT politics. It is abuse. It is anti-American and anti-democratic. All people who care about the U.S. should stand up against voter suppression, including businesses.

If the only way for you to stay in power is to suppress votes you shouldn't be in power.
Voter fraud, any kind, which diminishes the value of a real voter's vote, is voter suppression too.

There is a clear need to establish the value of each voter's vote, and eliminate every kind of abuse of elections.

The issue here is the values of some people who believe in open borders as equivalent of worldwide voter rights. In the mix are people who don't care about the fact that many other countries don't have voter rights, many other rights, opportunities. However you feel about those people, the answer can't be to destroy human rights here.

Competing models of governance. The press for management convenience/control worldwide is essentially a top-down dictatorship no matter what politics the top dogs claim. It's no different if were Trump, if that was the outcome.

The historic success model is the federalism concept embraced in the United States Constitution, where powers to the central government are defined, and many other powers specifically left in State or local control. This model enhances the value of citizens, diminishes the moolah trains available to corruption on the national or global level, and it reduces the opportunities for local misgovernment/corruption as well because there is a higher judicial power they cannot so easily buy out.

There will never be a substitute for individual responsibility.

The laws should absolutely protect every voter's vote and the value of that vote.
 

Gameface

IT'S TIME TO GET YOUR GAMEFACE ON!
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
Voter fraud, any kind, which diminishes the value of a real voter's vote, is voter suppression too.

There is a clear need to establish the value of each voter's vote, and eliminate every kind of abuse of elections.

The issue here is the values of some people who believe in open borders as equivalent of worldwide voter rights. In the mix are people who don't care about the fact that many other countries don't have voter rights, many other rights, opportunities. However you feel about those people, the answer can't be to destroy human rights here.

Competing models of governance. The press for management convenience/control worldwide is essentially a top-down dictatorship no matter what politics the top dogs claim. It's no different if were Trump, if that was the outcome.

The historic success model is the federalism concept embraced in the United States Constitution, where powers to the central government are defined, and many other powers specifically left in State or local control. This model enhances the value of citizens, diminishes the moolah trains available to corruption on the national or global level, and it reduces the opportunities for local misgovernment/corruption as well because there is a higher judicial power they cannot so easily buy out.

There will never be a substitute for individual responsibility.

The laws should absolutely protect every voter's vote and the value of that vote.
Yeah, it's a good thing we have voter fraud very much under control. So now is not the time to suppress votes in ways that does nothing to make voting more secure. Now is the time to increase access to these secure means of voting.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's a good thing we have voter fraud very much under control. So now is not the time to suppress votes in ways that does nothing to make voting more secure. Now is the time to increase access to these secure means of voting.
I'm sure you realize there are like half of Americans who just roll their eyes at statements like this.

The social media and mainstream news, and federal agencies have all lost serious ground in the minds of millions of Americans.

If I turned alley cat and drug in that smelly old fish, the GA law itself would you read it before making false statements about it. better yet, would you join in calling out the false media claims about it?

I sorta don't think you'd get past the "Look what that damn cat dragged in" response.
 

babe

Well-Known Member
Here's the NY Times offering:


Here it is from Fox Nes:

Here it is from GA :


Pretty clear to me, Ambrose Bierce got it right about legislatures and laws with his little ditty about "Liberty shrieked"


I have never seen a law I really liked, nor one that should not give a sentient person pause. Pretty much a Bastiat fan here.

Seriously, every law needs some critical reading, and ":there should be a law" against stupid laws. If that would work.

The problem I have with Games basic orientation here is just this, that with Marc Elias out and about, I don't believe much about claims our elections are done honestly.
 
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Gameface

IT'S TIME TO GET YOUR GAMEFACE ON!
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
I'm sure you realize there are like half of Americans who just roll their eyes at statements like this.

The social media and mainstream news, and federal agencies have all lost serious ground in the minds of millions of Americans.

If I turned alley cat and drug in that smelly old fish, the GA law itself would you read it before making false statements about it. better yet, would you join in calling out the false media claims about it?

I sorta don't think you'd get past the "Look what that damn cat dragged in" response.
I challenged Fish's comment about not being able to give people food or water in voting lines...

I don't care that half of Americans are dumb. Well, I actually do care, a lot, but they can be dumb if they want to be.
 

fishonjazz

Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
It's all ridiculous. The MLB has moved the all star game from Atlanta to Denver now in retaliation, punishing the minority businesses in Atlanta to the tune of 100 million estimated. Now the largely white population (81%) of Denver will reap the rewards. When private entities start trying to dictate politics like this, and end up screwing things up worse, you know the country is spiraling down.
You know what would have helped those poor minorities in Atlanta? Not suppressing their right to vote.

In fact I'm betting that the all star game probably wouldn't have even been moved from atlanta to Denver if voters rights weren't infringed upon in atlanta

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 

TheGoldStandard

Well-Known Member
I don't disagree that many of these laws make it harder to vote.

Factually voter fraud does occur, at what ratr and whether it has effected any outcome is unclear, and would be hard to prove in many instances. I'd suspect the large majority of fraud is undetected or can't be traced to the fraudulent source. The Sup. Ct. in the Crawford case upheld voter ID in Indiana partially due to a history of proven voter fraud, and the minimal restrictions the law placed (been decade or more since I read the case).
Here are examples of people charged with recent voting fraud IN GA:

There are cases like this every year. And a blanket statement by many that voting fraud does not exist is not swaying to me, when I know many people will defraud a system when they can. Where many states have minimal requirements for identification, how are they going to prove fraud? And what percentage of people that are going to vote don't have ID? I bet it is a very small number. Nationally I have seen a number of polls that extrapolate that 5-10% of Americans may not have valid ID, but I never saw any study asking those people if they voted or would if they could. I do recall studies saying blacks would still likely vote w an ID requirement but hispanics would be less likely, but it was a small % difference IIRC.

I don't think we should discount the potential impact of voter fraud, but keep in mind we need to make it easy for people to vote. Voting is one of the most powerful tools we have, and like anything, is subject to abuse (both fraud and suppression). The Indiana case balamced this and ruled in favor of upholding the ID law.

There is no perfect solution IMO, but I'm for voter ID IF every person can get free ID with an easy process (delivery, etc.). This can also ensure that many disadvantaged persons can get easier access to welfare, library programs, etc. The NY free ID program has been tremendously successful in helping many vulnerable people get access to city services, and GA has a free ID card for voters, and recently proposed a ID with REALID free for all citizens (currently $32 for the REAL ID card). https://www.11alive.com/article/new...dents/85-e7a93da0-0e09-4e9a-ab2f-c3c3794ae8f2

There could be backup provisions (provisional voting until proof of ID or optional fingerprinting, which I believe the GA law does have).

The Supreme Court has a really good analysis regarding voting fraud occurring over the years in upholding the Indiana voter ID. The dissent talked about the burden outweighing the benefit (paying for ID, traveling for ID, etc., that can all be overcome by offering delivery service as some other states do with free ID).

Outside of the politically charged voter ID issue, getting everyone ID and ensuring they have access to services and benefits is a good idea.


I do recall when ND passed a law making it more difficult for native americans to vote, the result was the largest turnout ever of native american voters in an election. I expect a similar reaction in GA.
 

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