Voter Suppression and Why The Republicans Love It So Much?


The Thriller

Well-Known Member
I look at the idea of voter suppression the same way I look at voter fraud. Neither of these two things have a significant or material impact on election results. They both might very well exist, but it's not making a difference in elections.

Go on a conservative message board and you will read comments from a lot of idiots suggesting that the Democrats are trying to steal elections by allowing non-citizens and dead people to vote. I see the same thing here, just on the opposite side of the isle.
Voter suppression doesn’t impact election results??? Ummmm. What? Did you seriously post that with a straight face?

secondly, it’s not the same thing. Non-citizens and dead people aren’t voting while voter suppression actually does happen and it’s impact is significant. Just because conservative message boards are talking about liberals drinking the blood of children and dead people voting, doesn’t mean it’s true nor does it make it any less true that voter suppression impacts elections. And judging by the Qanon stuff, there’s a lot of ridiculous **** posted on conservative message boards these days.

Lastly, even if the impact wasn’t significant, isn’t it unbelievably immoral? Attempting to disenfranchise voters and/or prevent them from voting is an attack on the very soul of democracy.
 
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The Thriller

Well-Known Member
It's all ridiculous. The MLB has moved the all star game from Atlanta to Denver now in retaliation, punishing the minority businesses in Atlanta to the tune of 100 million estimated. Now the largely white population (81%) of Denver will reap the rewards. When private entities start trying to dictate politics like this, and end up screwing things up worse, you know the country is spiraling down.
The point wasn’t to punish a race. The point was to punish a state that just launched an attack on our democracy. Did you think the MLB was attacking white people? Why did you think that?
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
I don't disagree that many of these laws make it harder to vote.

Factually voter fraud does occur, at what ratr and whether it has effected any outcome is unclear, and would be hard to prove in many instances. I'd suspect the large majority of fraud is undetected or can't be traced to the fraudulent source. The Sup. Ct. in the Crawford case upheld voter ID in Indiana partially due to a history of proven voter fraud, and the minimal restrictions the law placed (been decade or more since I read the case).
Here are examples of people charged with recent voting fraud IN GA:

There are cases like this every year. And a blanket statement by many that voting fraud does not exist is not swaying to me, when I know many people will defraud a system when they can. Where many states have minimal requirements for identification, how are they going to prove fraud? And what percentage of people that are going to vote don't have ID? I bet it is a very small number. Nationally I have seen a number of polls that extrapolate that 5-10% of Americans may not have valid ID, but I never saw any study asking those people if they voted or would if they could. I do recall studies saying blacks would still likely vote w an ID requirement but hispanics would be less likely, but it was a small % difference IIRC.

I don't think we should discount the potential impact of voter fraud, but keep in mind we need to make it easy for people to vote. Voting is one of the most powerful tools we have, and like anything, is subject to abuse (both fraud and suppression). The Indiana case balamced this and ruled in favor of upholding the ID law.

There is no perfect solution IMO, but I'm for voter ID IF every person can get free ID with an easy process (delivery, etc.). This can also ensure that many disadvantaged persons can get easier access to welfare, library programs, etc. The NY free ID program has been tremendously successful in helping many vulnerable people get access to city services, and GA has a free ID card for voters, and recently proposed a ID with REALID free for all citizens (currently $32 for the REAL ID card). https://www.11alive.com/article/new...dents/85-e7a93da0-0e09-4e9a-ab2f-c3c3794ae8f2

There could be backup provisions (provisional voting until proof of ID or optional fingerprinting, which I believe the GA law does have).

The Supreme Court has a really good analysis regarding voting fraud occurring over the years in upholding the Indiana voter ID. The dissent talked about the burden outweighing the benefit (paying for ID, traveling for ID, etc., that can all be overcome by offering delivery service as some other states do with free ID).

Outside of the politically charged voter ID issue, getting everyone ID and ensuring they have access to services and benefits is a good idea.


I do recall when ND passed a law making it more difficult for native americans to vote, the result was the largest turnout ever of native american voters in an election. I expect a similar reaction in GA.
Dear god...

You’re essentially asking someone to prove a negative. The very fact that voter fraud isn’t significant means it’s significant, it’s just “undetected.”

“And just because Hillary hasn’t been caught drinking blood from children doesn’t mean she doesn’t! Q is workin with Trump! Trust the plan!”

My hell. Turn off Facebook.

guys, voter fraud has been studied and investigated repeatedly. It’s incredibly rare and doesn’t impact elections at all. The responses to ridiculous fraud accusations certainly generate “fraud” by suppressing voters.

in Texas, 16 cases in 17 million votes. So less than 1 in 1 million.
why do we keep having this conversation over and over again? Turn off Facebook and start reading from Credible sources.
 
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Jazz4ever

Well-Known Member
The point wasn’t to punish a race. The point was to punish a state that just launched an attack on our democracy. Did you think the MLB was attacking white people? Why did you think that?

I spelled it out pretty plainly I thought. The MLB is doing a lot of damage to Atlanta business by moving the game. Now Atlanta, already stricken with poverty at a 22.4%, rate, will suffer much harder so the MLB can play king and become our 4th branch of gov't. We will likely see Atlanta compensated in some form, either through the infrastructure bill or an upcoming bill, but anyway you slice it it's deep corruption.
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
Explain please.

Sent from my SM-G973U using JazzFanz mobile app
Remember In the movie Jurassic Park when the warden explains how the velociraptors attacked the fences to systematically test its weak spots? That’s what Republicans essentially did/are doing. Remember how Trump invited members of the Michigan and Pennsylvania legislatures and to try to contest the election? Remember when he called election officials including Georgia’s Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to “find him enough votes?” Essentially, he was testing the weaknesses of our system.

Our system depends on the integrity of election officials, legislatures, and Congress to validate the system. If Trump could’ve picked off enough legislatures to de-certify the results, he could’ve overturned the election. Heck, he didn’t even need them to declare that he won. All he needed to do was cause enough chaos and confusion that enough Americans just threw their hands ups in the air and gave him 4 more years. Had the results been de-certified, then Congress would’ve decided the election result. Which again, in the chaos and confusion, would’ve only benefitted the authoritarian. It always does, history has proven that over and over.

So what the Georgia law does, is it provides power to override the Secretary of State and election officials. So Donald wouldn’t have any need to call up Brad (remember, he was the guy who released the phone call recording to the Wash Post). He could just call the Governor and the wheels would begin turning to fire election officials And replace them with sycophants.

This article helps explain it:
This one is good too:
Under the new law, the Republican-majority General Assembly does gain new powers over elections.

By a simple majority vote, the legislature elects three -- a change from two -- of the State Election Board's five voting members, and that now includes the chairperson. The secretary of state, who Georgians elect to office, becomes a non-voting member of the board and loses his chairmanship.

The State Election Board also gained the power to temporarily suspend county or municipal election "superintendents." In Georgia, the county boards of elections, and sometimes probate judges, are the "superintendents." This means the board could suspend the people responsible for certifying election results and transfer all of their legal responsibilities, including decisions over election personnel, to a temporary replacement.
by de-certifying the election results, they essentially give control to a small voter commission, picked largely by the state legislature. Essentially, giving the legislature control over who wins/loses the election. Even if this wouldn’t have resulted in an all out Trump win, the chaos and confusion would’ve undoubtedly benefitted him. It erodes trust which benefits the authoritarian candidate. Georgia’s legislature is essentially usurping the power of voters.

Over what? trump’s big lie.

Georgia’s own Secretary of State said this:
"We've never found systemic fraud -- not enough to overturn the election. We have over 250 cases right now ... but right now we don't see anything that would overturn, you know, the will of the people here in Georgia," Raffensperger, a Republican, told ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos during an interview on "This Week."
"Yeah ... sad but true. I wish he would have won. I'm a conservative Republican, and I'm disappointed, but those are the results," the secretary said.
He’s a Republican. And yet Georgia is overhauling its system over Georgia going blue this cycle and Trump acting butt hurt about it.

So had Donald won Georgia and won re-election, and had their two incumbents won, think their legislature would’ve bothered overhauling their election system? And if that’s why, then is it any stretch to think that the legislature won’t try to steal an election for trump (or whichever candidate the Republican is) if it’s close in 2024?
 
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The Thriller

Well-Known Member
I spelled it out pretty plainly I thought. The MLB is doing a lot of damage to Atlanta business by moving the game. Now Atlanta, already stricken with poverty at a 22.4%, rate, will suffer much harder so the MLB can play king and become our 4th branch of gov't. We will likely see Atlanta compensated in some form, either through the infrastructure bill or an upcoming bill, but anyway you slice it it's deep corruption.
Maybe republicans in Georgia should stop hurting state businesses then? Maybe they should stop passing immoral voter suppression laws?

I don’t understand how anyone other than a pathetic Republican hack would blame anyone other than Republicans for this. Yeah, it’s sad that the MLB’s response will hurt a lot of Georgians. Maybe republicans in Georgia should repeal their immoral law so companies won’t feel ashamed to do business there?
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
I spelled it out pretty plainly I thought. The MLB is doing a lot of damage to Atlanta business by moving the game. Now Atlanta, already stricken with poverty at a 22.4%, rate, will suffer much harder so the MLB can play king and become our 4th branch of gov't. We will likely see Atlanta compensated in some form, either through the infrastructure bill or an upcoming bill, but anyway you slice it it's deep corruption.
Answer me this, if trump had won Georgia and Georgia’s two incumbent senators had won reelection, think Georgia’s legislature would’ve passed the bill that the MLB and other businesses are now protesting?
 

Red

Well-Known Member
People who are afraid of democracy restrict voting. People who are not afraid of democracy expand voting. In the case of the Republican Party, fear of loss of power is driving their actions to make it harder for citizens likely to lean Democratic to vote.
 
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One Brow

Well-Known Member
I look at the idea of voter suppression the same way I look at voter fraud.
The notion that 'no one can offer basic comfort to a person who has been standing in line for 4 hours' is related to voter fraud in what way?

When was the last time you stood in line several hours to vote? Do that and then tell me it has no effect on your willingness to vote.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
If you actually care about promoting your views, the occasional skeptic is an opportunity to teach. Get some facts, some considerations, be nice to the opposition. It makes you look better.
'Spouting off opposing talking points' =/= 'skeptical'.
 

One Brow

Well-Known Member
I spelled it out pretty plainly I thought. The MLB is doing a lot of damage to Atlanta business by moving the game. Now Atlanta, already stricken with poverty at a 22.4%, rate, will suffer much harder so the MLB can play king and become our 4th branch of gov't. We will likely see Atlanta compensated in some form, either through the infrastructure bill or an upcoming bill, but anyway you slice it it's deep corruption.
One All-Star isn't going to make a dent in the poverty rate, not even a 0.1% difference, because the money doesn't go to the impoverished. You should have stuck with minority-owned businesses, of which there are maybe 5 that would be affected by the All-Star game, so it was mostly mostly stupid.

Why the harshness on a private corporation (MLB) making it's own choices. Why do you hate capitalism?
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
1. Who do you think is disproportionately hurt when you:

Limit drop-boxes to 1 per county?

Texas did this last election leaving Travis County with a population of 1.2 million, with the same amount of drop-boxes as Loving county, population of 169. Loving is 90 percent white and doesn’t have a single African American. Do I really need to tell you how it voted this past election? 91 percent for Trump. 91 percent. Georgia’s new law does this exact thing. So Atlanta will potentially have the same amount of drop-boxes as the more rural areas. And with limited hours:
For the 2020 election, there were 94 drop boxes across the four counties that make up the core of metropolitan Atlanta: Fulton, Cobb, DeKalb and Gwinnett. The new law limits the same four counties to a total of, at most, 23 drop boxes, based on the latest voter registration data. The number could be lower depending on how many early-voting sites the counties provide.

There won’t just be fewer drop boxes. Instead of 24-hour access outdoors, the boxes must be placed indoors at government buildings and early-voting sites and will thus be unavailable for voters to drop off their ballots during evenings and other nonbusiness hours.

Who do you think this disproportionately impacts?


2. Who do you think is disproportionately impacted when hours are cut in polling places? The rich? The retired? Or the working class (where the majority of black voters reside)? Why have we seen a surge of 1,200 polling places being closed since the voting rights act was gutted in 2013? Just a coincidence I’m sure, right?

3. Who do you think is disproportionately impacted when polling places are closed? Have you ever seen rural whites waiting for hours to vote? Who do you think is disproportionately impacted by making it illegal to distribute food and water to those waiting in line? Have you ever had to wait 10 hours to vote?
4. Who do you think is disproportionately impacted when Mail-in voting is used to try to avoid long lines for in-person voting?

Republicans used to be in favor of Mail-in voting. Heck, Utah is one of many states who offer it. But that was when the majority of those using mail-in voting were retired whites. Now that it’s urban blacks, they’re suddenly against it. So laws against Mail-in voting, who do you think this disproportionately impacts?

Finally, this is a good history on voter suppression. This took me a while to compile so I’d appreciate it if people took time to read through these sources instead of relying on the same lame Facebook talking points.
seriously contemplate:
1. Why republicans are engaged in voter suppression?
2. What it might feel like to be a person of color, seeing their own government trying to make it harder for their voice to be heard. They already most likely go to poor schools and see the police over police their neighborhoods. The last president might’ve called their city a “********.” And now, once their side won an election, now they’re seeing all of these laws be enacted to try and disappear their voice? Cmon
3. Think about the whites this disproportionately impacts too. In the end, voter suppression hurts us all. It might hurt Democrats and POC more, but it hurts us all. Is that what we want?
 
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