You didnt answer the question so i will try to ask it in a different way.
Why are drop boxes bad?
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Voter Suppression and Why The Republicans Love It So Much?
- Thread starter Gameface
- Start date
You didnt answer the question so i will try to ask it in a different way.
Why are drop boxes bad?
Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
Un-****ing-believable. My god our country is falling so fast it'll collapse way faster than the Roman empire did. Does Biden play the fiddle by the way?On Friday, the Wisconsin Supreme Court’s Republican majority outlawed ballot drop boxes by a 4–3 vote, abolishing a reform that had made voting easier and more accessible in the state. The lead opinion—authored by the notorious fringe-right reactionary Justice Rebecca Grassl Bradley—contains alarming language casting doubt on the legitimacy of Joe Biden’s 2020 victory. It also grants credence to the GOP’s collapsing “investigation” to prove that illegal votes put Biden over the top in Wisconsin. Without a shred of evidence, the court has thrown its weight behind a dangerous conspiracy theory that helped to fuel the Jan. 6 insurrection.
In her opinion for the court in Teigen, Justice Grassl Bradley declared that every single drop box was illegal, and every citizen who used this method cast a ballot illegally. Why? The justice added a word to the statute, insisting that voters must return absentee ballots to the municipal clerk’s office. Returning a ballot to some other location under the exclusive control of the clerk does not suffice. Moreover, Bradley held that only the voter may return their ballot to a municipal clerk; a family member or friend may not do it for them.
The court’s implication could not be more obvious: The 2020 election was “unlawful,” so the results—and, specifically, Biden’s victory—are “illegitimate.”
As Justice Ann Walsh Bradley explained in dissent, Wisconsin law simply does not impose these requirements. (Side note: The existence of two Justice Bradleys with polar opposite ideologies is one of several befuddling features of the current court.) There are several statutes that do discuss the office of the clerk, but this isn’t one of them. The law only demands delivery to the clerks themselves. A drop box “is set up by the municipal clerk, maintained by the municipal clerk, and emptied by the municipal clerk.” Placing a ballot in a drop box is, under any reasonable reading, delivering a ballot to the clerk.
Wisconsin Supreme Court Bans Drop Boxes, Suggests Biden’s 2020 Victory Was “Illegitimate”
In an inflammatory decision, the far-right justices declared that illegal votes “polluted” the election.slate.com
They are using the fact that drop boxes exist to manufacture illegality in regards to the election. It's a creative, and fully corrupt and immoral, way to dispute the validity of Biden's presidency. It's an insurrection carried out by the state high court using semantics and trivialities to gain a political advantage. Completely corrupt. And no one will do **** about it.
Because they helped Biden get elected.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
The short answer is that they could lead to civil war.
The longer answer, if you have the patience for it, touches on what purpose democracy serves in a society and the warning signs that are flashing with increasing intensity but being ignored by one side of the aisle.
THE PURPOSE OF DEMOCRACY
Democracy serves as an alternative to violence. As Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. put it “Riots are the voice of the unheard”. People are more likely to accept an outcome they personally don’t support if they see they did get a chance to be heard but were outvoted by their neighbors. They may take a dim view of their neighbors but are more understanding of why the authority is imposing the thing they are.
By contrast, if an authority simply imposes a thing and the public has no nonviolent recourse to pour their opposition into, then some will resort to violent means to be heard. Democracy serves as a pressure relief valve. I have been clear that I think that making Democracy the highest authority is a dumb idea and prefer a Republic that has elements of democracy but I’m going to stay on topic. Democracy is a nonviolent pressure relief outlet to make voices heard.
WARNING SIGNS FLASHING
There are a large number of people who believe the 2020 election was stolen. Regardless of your personal views on the subject or of those people who believe as they do, even the blind cannot deny that such people exist. Those people do not believe democracy exists in our country. They believe there is voting but the votes aren’t counted fairly and so there isn’t democracy.
There are a number of agencies warning about the rising threat of right wing domestic terrorism. If there is any single issue that could possibly swell support for such a cause, it would be the belief that there is no real democracy and engaging in violence is the only way left to them to be heard. “[Violence] is the voice of the unheard”.
I don’t disagree with those who say Trump is mostly or entirely to blame for fostering this dangerous belief. He needs to go away and maybe go away to prison. It was reckless beyond words but here we are.
THE PROBLEM WITH DROP BOXES
The integrity of an election cannot be proved if there is no substantive verification of the legitimacy of every single vote. There has to be an auditable chain of custody from the voter all the way to those doing the counting and tabulation. Drop boxes break the chain of custody. There is no way to know who dropped a particular ballot into a particular drop box.
We have the technology to make things convenient, secure and highly auditable. Online banking does it. Crypto-currency does it. The idea that we must have an unmanned drop box that breaks chain-of-custody for purposes of convenience is ridiculous. The idea that we must have drop boxes when a sizable portion of the population doubts the integrity of the election and unmanned drop boxes make end-to-end audits impossible is foolish.
The Wisconsin laws predate Trump and the current mood of the country but they were put in place to ensure election integrity. That need is more pressing now than when the laws were originally written. The question you should be asking is why election boards aren’t using modern technology to allow you to vote using your smart phone in the middle of the night in your underwear, then logging back in 3 days later after new information has come to light to change your votes with all IP addresses logged and your front facing camera confirming you are you.
So what you are saying is that drop boxes are bad because a bunch of trumpers say they are bad.
What if trumpers continue to lose elections without drop boxes being involved and they decide that voting on elections is bad in general? Would that mean we should get rid of voting altogether simply because the losers of the election are unhappy about how the voting went?
I agree with your final sentence although not every single voter has a smart phone not to mention all the people that would freak out about privacy violation if they have to have a camera on them.
If people aren't trusting the 2020 election results then they shouldn't be trusting the 2016 results either. In 2016 there were mail in voting and drop boxes so if things like that are the issue then the 2016 election was stolen too. Also, all the senate and house votes and every other elected position..... All frauds.
We as a nation can either trust the process that we used for an election or we can trust trump.
We can trust the judges in all the court cases trump lost. We can trust the AG and DOJ. We can trust the election officials. We can trust the audits and recounts. Or we can trust trump.
Lets say in 2024 there is no mail in voting. There are no drop boxes. No voting from your phone or computer. Each and ever single vote is literally done in person with an ID to prove each voter is alive and who they say they are. Then Trump loses and says the software was corrupt, hackers hacked into the system, voters were using fake ID's, workers at the voting locations were letting people vote without ID's... Etc etc etc. A bunch of mockumentaries surface. Qanon gets into the mix. All of trumps cronies spout off about a stolen election. His cult of american citizens buy it all again. Then what? Should we just make trump president until the day he dies and then his offspring take over until they die and then their offspring and so on? Get rid of the whole voting process all together all because trump, a crook liar, swindler, and overall scummy douchebag lost an election?
Thank god for the january 6th committee for keeping everyones attention on all the reasons we should never trust a thing trump says.
We as a nation can either trust the process that we used for an election or we can trust trump.
We can trust the judges in all the court cases trump lost. We can trust the AG and DOJ. We can trust the election officials. We can trust the audits and recounts. Or we can trust trump.
Lets say in 2024 there is no mail in voting. There are no drop boxes. No voting from your phone or computer. Each and ever single vote is literally done in person with an ID to prove each voter is alive and who they say they are. Then Trump loses and says the software was corrupt, hackers hacked into the system, voters were using fake ID's, workers at the voting locations were letting people vote without ID's... Etc etc etc. A bunch of mockumentaries surface. Qanon gets into the mix. All of trumps cronies spout off about a stolen election. His cult of american citizens buy it all again. Then what? Should we just make trump president until the day he dies and then his offspring take over until they die and then their offspring and so on? Get rid of the whole voting process all together all because trump, a crook liar, swindler, and overall scummy douchebag lost an election?
Thank god for the january 6th committee for keeping everyones attention on all the reasons we should never trust a thing trump says.
Damn good post fishbro.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
No. I'm saying that trust in authority is breaking down. People don't trust the police, or reporters, or religious leaders to the degree they used to. Trust in the democratic process is arguably more important than those other things because if enough people stop believing their votes are being counted then people will turn to violence to make themselves heard. Insulting people isn't the way to build trust. Showing people proof via audits is how to build trust. Drop boxes make end-to-end audits impossible because they break the chain-of-custody between the voter and the counter. I don't have any problem with making voting more convenient but the proposed process has to be at least as secure as voting in person.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Then you go to work debunking the claims using evidence. You don't make people choose if they are going to believe this guy or that guy. You show the evidence and let people believe their own eyes.
You mean like all the court cases Donald lost, the audits, the recounts? You know that stuff? People believe Qanon more than legitimate things these days. Maybe trump saying things like fake news and alternative facts had an effect on people.
To a large portion of people evidence and facts don't matter.
Red
Well-Known Member
This is why one of Trump’s greatest “crimes” was his Big Lie. It’s the damage that does to the body politic. The potentially LASTING damage moving forward. He laid the groundwork for using the Big Lie months before the 2016 election. He repeated the groundwork months before the 2020 election. (One would think that adults, with the sufficient degree of cynicism that life experiences and a realistic understanding of human nature might provide, would easily recognize Trump’s laying the groundwork of the Big Lie as just a con artist setting up his marks, but no, when he says what his cult members WANT to believe, the common sense of those cultists is nowhere to be found. And Trump knew that would be the case. He’s one of the greatest con artists of all time.) And based on that completely fabricated narrative of a fraudulent 2020 election, Republicans have been running with the idea of preventing fraud that never happened. I do not think those Americans appalled by the Big Lie are needlessly paranoid by being concerned at the number of 2020 election deniers running for Secretary of State in the 2022 midterms on the GOP side in many states.
And, the Supreme Court, in the next term, may tilt the scale further, away from free and fair elections:
Opinion: The dangerous election theory the Supreme Court may be poised to endorse | CNN
The US Supreme Court is poised to take up a case with the potential to profoundly reshape American life -- this time at the ballot box. The case, Moore v. Harper, could make it easier for political incumbents to entrench themselves in office and could even put the 2024 election in peril, writes...
www.cnn.com
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