Voter Suppression and Why The Republicans Love It So Much?

[babe]

Here's the NY Times offering:

Full Text: Georgia’s Voting Law (Published 2021)

New legislation passed by state Republicans creates an array of new restrictions and limits on voting. Here’s the full document.

www.nytimes.com

Here it is from Fox Nes:

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/04/Georgia-election-law-SB-202.pdf

Here it is from GA :

https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/legislation/document/20212022/201121

Pretty clear to me, Ambrose Bierce got it right about legislatures and laws with his little ditty about "Liberty shrieked"

Ambrose Bierce poem Freedom

I have never seen a law I really liked, nor one that should not give a sentient person pause. Pretty much a Bastiat fan here.

Seriously, every law needs some critical reading, and ":there should be a law" against stupid laws. If that would work.

The problem I have with Games basic orientation here is just this, that with Marc Elias out and about, I don't believe much about claims our elections are done honestly.

 

[Gameface]

I'm sure you realize there are like half of Americans who just roll their eyes at statements like this.

The social media and mainstream news, and federal agencies have all lost serious ground in the minds of millions of Americans.

If I turned alley cat and drug in that smelly old fish, the GA law itself would you read it before making false statements about it. better yet, would you join in calling out the false media claims about it?

I sorta don't think you'd get past the "Look what that damn cat dragged in" response.

I challenged Fish's comment about not being able to give people food or water in voting lines...

I don't care that half of Americans are dumb. Well, I actually do care, a lot, but they can be dumb if they want to be.

 

[fishonjazz]

It's all ridiculous. The MLB has moved the all star game from Atlanta to Denver now in retaliation, punishing the minority businesses in Atlanta to the tune of 100 million estimated. Now the largely white population (81%) of Denver will reap the rewards. When private entities start trying to dictate politics like this, and end up screwing things up worse, you know the country is spiraling down.

You know what would have helped those poor minorities in Atlanta? Not suppressing their right to vote.

In fact I'm betting that the all star game probably wouldn't have even been moved from atlanta to Denver if voters rights weren't infringed upon in atlanta

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I don't disagree that many of these laws make it harder to vote.

Factually voter fraud does occur, at what ratr and whether it has effected any outcome is unclear, and would be hard to prove in many instances. I'd suspect the large majority of fraud is undetected or can't be traced to the fraudulent source. The Sup. Ct. in the Crawford case upheld voter ID in Indiana partially due to a history of proven voter fraud, and the minimal restrictions the law placed (been decade or more since I read the case).
Here are examples of people charged with recent voting fraud IN GA:

State Election Board Refers Voter Fraud Cases For Prosecution | Elections

There are cases like this every year. And a blanket statement by many that voting fraud does not exist is not swaying to me, when I know many people will defraud a system when they can. Where many states have minimal requirements for identification, how are they going to prove fraud? And what percentage of people that are going to vote don't have ID? I bet it is a very small number. Nationally I have seen a number of polls that extrapolate that 5-10% of Americans may not have valid ID, but I never saw any study asking those people if they voted or would if they could. I do recall studies saying blacks would still likely vote w an ID requirement but hispanics would be less likely, but it was a small % difference IIRC.

I don't think we should discount the potential impact of voter fraud, but keep in mind we need to make it easy for people to vote. Voting is one of the most powerful tools we have, and like anything, is subject to abuse (both fraud and suppression). The Indiana case balamced this and ruled in favor of upholding the ID law.

There is no perfect solution IMO, but I'm for voter ID IF every person can get free ID with an easy process (delivery, etc.). This can also ensure that many disadvantaged persons can get easier access to welfare, library programs, etc. The NY free ID program has been tremendously successful in helping many vulnerable people get access to city services, and GA has a free ID card for voters, and recently proposed a ID with REALID free for all citizens (currently $32 for the REAL ID card). https://www.11alive.com/article/new...dents/85-e7a93da0-0e09-4e9a-ab2f-c3c3794ae8f2

There could be backup provisions (provisional voting until proof of ID or optional fingerprinting, which I believe the GA law does have).

The Supreme Court has a really good analysis regarding voting fraud occurring over the years in upholding the Indiana voter ID. The dissent talked about the burden outweighing the benefit (paying for ID, traveling for ID, etc., that can all be overcome by offering delivery service as some other states do with free ID).

Outside of the politically charged voter ID issue, getting everyone ID and ensuring they have access to services and benefits is a good idea.


I do recall when ND passed a law making it more difficult for native americans to vote, the result was the largest turnout ever of native american voters in an election. I expect a similar reaction in GA.

 

[Deleted member 365]

I look at the idea of voter suppression the same way I look at voter fraud. Neither of these two things have a significant or material impact on election results. They both might very well exist, but it's not making a difference in elections.

Go on a conservative message board and you will read comments from a lot of idiots suggesting that the Democrats are trying to steal elections by allowing non-citizens and dead people to vote. I see the same thing here, just on the opposite side of the isle.

Voter suppression doesn’t impact election results??? Ummmm. What? Did you seriously post that with a straight face?

secondly, it’s not the same thing. Non-citizens and dead people aren’t voting while voter suppression actually does happen and it’s impact is significant. Just because conservative message boards are talking about liberals drinking the blood of children and dead people voting, doesn’t mean it’s true nor does it make it any less true that voter suppression impacts elections. And judging by the Qanon stuff, there’s a lot of ridiculous **** posted on conservative message boards these days.

Lastly, even if the impact wasn’t significant, isn’t it unbelievably immoral? Attempting to disenfranchise voters and/or prevent them from voting is an attack on the very soul of democracy.

 

[Deleted member 365]

It's all ridiculous. The MLB has moved the all star game from Atlanta to Denver now in retaliation, punishing the minority businesses in Atlanta to the tune of 100 million estimated. Now the largely white population (81%) of Denver will reap the rewards. When private entities start trying to dictate politics like this, and end up screwing things up worse, you know the country is spiraling down.

The point wasn’t to punish a race. The point was to punish a state that just launched an attack on our democracy. Did you think the MLB was attacking white people? Why did you think that?

 

[Deleted member 365]

I don't disagree that many of these laws make it harder to vote.

Factually voter fraud does occur, at what ratr and whether it has effected any outcome is unclear, and would be hard to prove in many instances. I'd suspect the large majority of fraud is undetected or can't be traced to the fraudulent source. The Sup. Ct. in the Crawford case upheld voter ID in Indiana partially due to a history of proven voter fraud, and the minimal restrictions the law placed (been decade or more since I read the case).
Here are examples of people charged with recent voting fraud IN GA:

State Election Board Refers Voter Fraud Cases For Prosecution | Elections

There are cases like this every year. And a blanket statement by many that voting fraud does not exist is not swaying to me, when I know many people will defraud a system when they can. Where many states have minimal requirements for identification, how are they going to prove fraud? And what percentage of people that are going to vote don't have ID? I bet it is a very small number. Nationally I have seen a number of polls that extrapolate that 5-10% of Americans may not have valid ID, but I never saw any study asking those people if they voted or would if they could. I do recall studies saying blacks would still likely vote w an ID requirement but hispanics would be less likely, but it was a small % difference IIRC.

I don't think we should discount the potential impact of voter fraud, but keep in mind we need to make it easy for people to vote. Voting is one of the most powerful tools we have, and like anything, is subject to abuse (both fraud and suppression). The Indiana case balamced this and ruled in favor of upholding the ID law.

There is no perfect solution IMO, but I'm for voter ID IF every person can get free ID with an easy process (delivery, etc.). This can also ensure that many disadvantaged persons can get easier access to welfare, library programs, etc. The NY free ID program has been tremendously successful in helping many vulnerable people get access to city services, and GA has a free ID card for voters, and recently proposed a ID with REALID free for all citizens (currently $32 for the REAL ID card). https://www.11alive.com/article/new...dents/85-e7a93da0-0e09-4e9a-ab2f-c3c3794ae8f2

There could be backup provisions (provisional voting until proof of ID or optional fingerprinting, which I believe the GA law does have).

The Supreme Court has a really good analysis regarding voting fraud occurring over the years in upholding the Indiana voter ID. The dissent talked about the burden outweighing the benefit (paying for ID, traveling for ID, etc., that can all be overcome by offering delivery service as some other states do with free ID).

Outside of the politically charged voter ID issue, getting everyone ID and ensuring they have access to services and benefits is a good idea.


I do recall when ND passed a law making it more difficult for native americans to vote, the result was the largest turnout ever of native american voters in an election. I expect a similar reaction in GA.

Dear god...

You’re essentially asking someone to prove a negative. The very fact that voter fraud isn’t significant means it’s significant, it’s just “undetected.”

“And just because Hillary hasn’t been caught drinking blood from children doesn’t mean she doesn’t! Q is workin with Trump! Trust the plan!”

My hell. Turn off Facebook.

guys, voter fraud has been studied and investigated repeatedly. It’s incredibly rare and doesn’t impact elections at all. The responses to ridiculous fraud accusations certainly generate “fraud” by suppressing voters.

in Texas, 16 cases in 17 million votes. So less than 1 in 1 million.

Fact-Checking Falsehoods on Mail-In Voting

Voters are facing a deluge of misinformation about voting by mail, some prompted by the president. Here’s a guide to those false claims.

www.nytimes.com

Is Voter Fraud a Danger or a Myth?

Is voter fraud real and do mail-in ballots make voting more susceptible to it? Lorraine C. Minnite, an associate professor of public policy at Rutgers-Camden, provides some answers.

www.rutgers.edu

Backstory: We investigated claims of voter fraud in the election. Here's what we found.

Are USA TODAY reporters looking into Trump's allegations of voter fraud during the 2020 election? The short answer is yes, but many are not credible.

www.usatoday.com

The Myth of Voter Fraud

Extensive research reveals that fraud is very rare. Yet repeated, false allegations of fraud can make it harder for millions of eligible Americans to participate in elections.

www.brennancenter.org

why do we keep having this conversation over and over again? Turn off Facebook and start reading from Credible sources.

 

[Jazz4ever]

The point wasn’t to punish a race. The point was to punish a state that just launched an attack on our democracy. Did you think the MLB was attacking white people? Why did you think that?

I spelled it out pretty plainly I thought. The MLB is doing a lot of damage to Atlanta business by moving the game. Now Atlanta, already stricken with poverty at a 22.4%, rate, will suffer much harder so the MLB can play king and become our 4th branch of gov't. We will likely see Atlanta compensated in some form, either through the infrastructure bill or an upcoming bill, but anyway you slice it it's deep corruption.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Explain please.

Sent from my SM-G973U using JazzFanz mobile app

Remember In the movie Jurassic Park when the warden explains how the velociraptors attacked the fences to systematically test its weak spots? That’s what Republicans essentially did/are doing. Remember how Trump invited members of the Michigan and Pennsylvania legislatures and to try to contest the election? Remember when he called election officials including Georgia’s Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to “find him enough votes?” Essentially, he was testing the weaknesses of our system.

Our system depends on the integrity of election officials, legislatures, and Congress to validate the system. If Trump could’ve picked off enough legislatures to de-certify the results, he could’ve overturned the election. Heck, he didn’t even need them to declare that he won. All he needed to do was cause enough chaos and confusion that enough Americans just threw their hands ups in the air and gave him 4 more years. Had the results been de-certified, then Congress would’ve decided the election result. Which again, in the chaos and confusion, would’ve only benefitted the authoritarian. It always does, history has proven that over and over.

So what the Georgia law does, is it provides power to override the Secretary of State and election officials. So Donald wouldn’t have any need to call up Brad (remember, he was the guy who released the phone call recording to the Wash Post). He could just call the Governor and the wheels would begin turning to fire election officials And replace them with sycophants.

This article helps explain it:

Georgia Has Enacted Sweeping Changes to Its Voting Law. Here's Why Voting Rights Advocates Are Worried

Voting rights advocates have decried Georgia’s new law as an attempt to influence whose votes are counted and suppress turnout

time.com

This one is good too:

Breaking down claims about Georgia's election law: What's true and what's not?

Since GOP Gov. Brian Kemp signed a sweeping overhaul of Georgia's election code into law, Democrats have equated it with "Jim Crow" laws while Republicans have claimed it actually expands voter access in the state. On Tuesday, White House press secretary Jen Psaki dodged questions from...

www.yahoo.com

Under the new law, the Republican-majority General Assembly does gain new powers over elections.

By a simple majority vote, the legislature elects three -- a change from two -- of the State Election Board's five voting members, and that now includes the chairperson. The secretary of state, who Georgians elect to office, becomes a non-voting member of the board and loses his chairmanship.

The State Election Board also gained the power to temporarily suspend county or municipal election "superintendents." In Georgia, the county boards of elections, and sometimes probate judges, are the "superintendents." This means the board could suspend the people responsible for certifying election results and transfer all of their legal responsibilities, including decisions over election personnel, to a temporary replacement.

by de-certifying the election results, they essentially give control to a small voter commission, picked largely by the state legislature. Essentially, giving the legislature control over who wins/loses the election. Even if this wouldn’t have resulted in an all out Trump win, the chaos and confusion would’ve undoubtedly benefitted him. It erodes trust which benefits the authoritarian candidate. Georgia’s legislature is essentially usurping the power of voters.

Over what? trump’s big lie.

Georgia’s own Secretary of State said this:

"We've never found systemic fraud -- not enough to overturn the election. We have over 250 cases right now ... but right now we don't see anything that would overturn, you know, the will of the people here in Georgia," Raffensperger, a Republican, told ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos during an interview on "This Week."

"Yeah ... sad but true. I wish he would have won. I'm a conservative Republican, and I'm disappointed, but those are the results," the secretary said.

He’s a Republican. And yet Georgia is overhauling its system over Georgia going blue this cycle and Trump acting butt hurt about it.

So had Donald won Georgia and won re-election, and had their two incumbents won, think their legislature would’ve bothered overhauling their election system? And if that’s why, then is it any stretch to think that the legislature won’t try to steal an election for trump (or whichever candidate the Republican is) if it’s close in 2024?

 

[Deleted member 365]

I spelled it out pretty plainly I thought. The MLB is doing a lot of damage to Atlanta business by moving the game. Now Atlanta, already stricken with poverty at a 22.4%, rate, will suffer much harder so the MLB can play king and become our 4th branch of gov't. We will likely see Atlanta compensated in some form, either through the infrastructure bill or an upcoming bill, but anyway you slice it it's deep corruption.

Maybe republicans in Georgia should stop hurting state businesses then? Maybe they should stop passing immoral voter suppression laws?

I don’t understand how anyone other than a pathetic Republican hack would blame anyone other than Republicans for this. Yeah, it’s sad that the MLB’s response will hurt a lot of Georgians. Maybe republicans in Georgia should repeal their immoral law so companies won’t feel ashamed to do business there?

 

[Deleted member 365]

I spelled it out pretty plainly I thought. The MLB is doing a lot of damage to Atlanta business by moving the game. Now Atlanta, already stricken with poverty at a 22.4%, rate, will suffer much harder so the MLB can play king and become our 4th branch of gov't. We will likely see Atlanta compensated in some form, either through the infrastructure bill or an upcoming bill, but anyway you slice it it's deep corruption.

Answer me this, if trump had won Georgia and Georgia’s two incumbent senators had won reelection, think Georgia’s legislature would’ve passed the bill that the MLB and other businesses are now protesting?

 

[Red]

People who are afraid of democracy restrict voting. People who are not afraid of democracy expand voting. In the case of the Republican Party, fear of loss of power is driving their actions to make it harder for citizens likely to lean Democratic to vote.

 

[One Brow]

I look at the idea of voter suppression the same way I look at voter fraud.

The notion that 'no one can offer basic comfort to a person who has been standing in line for 4 hours' is related to voter fraud in what way?

When was the last time you stood in line several hours to vote? Do that and then tell me it has no effect on your willingness to vote.

 

[One Brow]

If you actually care about promoting your views, the occasional skeptic is an opportunity to teach. Get some facts, some considerations, be nice to the opposition. It makes you look better.

'Spouting off opposing talking points' =/= 'skeptical'.

 

[One Brow]

I spelled it out pretty plainly I thought. The MLB is doing a lot of damage to Atlanta business by moving the game. Now Atlanta, already stricken with poverty at a 22.4%, rate, will suffer much harder so the MLB can play king and become our 4th branch of gov't. We will likely see Atlanta compensated in some form, either through the infrastructure bill or an upcoming bill, but anyway you slice it it's deep corruption.

One All-Star isn't going to make a dent in the poverty rate, not even a 0.1% difference, because the money doesn't go to the impoverished. You should have stuck with minority-owned businesses, of which there are maybe 5 that would be affected by the All-Star game, so it was mostly mostly stupid.

Why the harshness on a private corporation (MLB) making it's own choices. Why do you hate capitalism?

 

[Deleted member 365]

1. Who do you think is disproportionately hurt when you:

Limit drop-boxes to 1 per county?

Texas did this last election leaving Travis County with a population of 1.2 million, with the same amount of drop-boxes as Loving county, population of 169. Loving is 90 percent white and doesn’t have a single African American. Do I really need to tell you how it voted this past election? 91 percent for Trump. 91 percent. Georgia’s new law does this exact thing. So Atlanta will potentially have the same amount of drop-boxes as the more rural areas. And with limited hours:

For the 2020 election, there were 94 drop boxes across the four counties that make up the core of metropolitan Atlanta: Fulton, Cobb, DeKalb and Gwinnett. The new law limits the same four counties to a total of, at most, 23 drop boxes, based on the latest voter registration data. The number could be lower depending on how many early-voting sites the counties provide.

There won’t just be fewer drop boxes. Instead of 24-hour access outdoors, the boxes must be placed indoors at government buildings and early-voting sites and will thus be unavailable for voters to drop off their ballots during evenings and other nonbusiness hours.

Who do you think this disproportionately impacts?

Can Travis County's one ballot drop-off site keep up with demand?

cbsaustin.com

2. Who do you think is disproportionately impacted when hours are cut in polling places? The rich? The retired? Or the working class (where the majority of black voters reside)? Why have we seen a surge of 1,200 polling places being closed since the voting rights act was gutted in 2013? Just a coincidence I’m sure, right?

Southern U.S. states have closed 1,200 polling places in recent years: rights group

States across the American South have closed nearly 1,200 polling places since the Supreme Court weakened a landmark voting-discrimination law in 2013, according to a report released by a civil-rights group on Tuesday.

mobile.reuters.com

3. Who do you think is disproportionately impacted when polling places are closed? Have you ever seen rural whites waiting for hours to vote? Who do you think is disproportionately impacted by making it illegal to distribute food and water to those waiting in line? Have you ever had to wait 10 hours to vote?

More than 10-hour wait and long lines as early voting starts in Georgia

Georgia, where at least two counties had problems with electronic pollbooks, is latest state to see extremely long lines on first day of in person voting

www.theguardian.com

4. Who do you think is disproportionately impacted when Mail-in voting is used to try to avoid long lines for in-person voting?

Republicans used to be in favor of Mail-in voting. Heck, Utah is one of many states who offer it. But that was when the majority of those using mail-in voting were retired whites. Now that it’s urban blacks, they’re suddenly against it. So laws against Mail-in voting, who do you think this disproportionately impacts?

The Republicans Telling Their Voters to Ignore Trump

GOP leaders in swing states are huge fans of voting by mail, despite the president’s unrelenting attacks on the practice.

www.theatlantic.com

Finally, this is a good history on voter suppression. This took me a while to compile so I’d appreciate it if people took time to read through these sources instead of relying on the same lame Facebook talking points.

Timeline: Voter suppression in the US from the Civil War to today

Voter suppression has been a part of the United States political scene since the nation's inception.

abcnews.go.com

seriously contemplate:
1. Why republicans are engaged in voter suppression?
2. What it might feel like to be a person of color, seeing their own government trying to make it harder for their voice to be heard. They already most likely go to poor schools and see the police over police their neighborhoods. The last president might’ve called their city a “********.” And now, once their side won an election, now they’re seeing all of these laws be enacted to try and disappear their voice? Cmon
3. Think about the whites this disproportionately impacts too. In the end, voter suppression hurts us all. It might hurt Democrats and POC more, but it hurts us all. Is that what we want?

 

[Deleted member 365]

Who does this disproportionately hurt vs help?

What Georgia’s Voting Law Really Does (Published 2021)

The New York Times analyzed the state’s new 98-page voting law and identified 16 key provisions that will limit ballot access, potentially confuse voters and give more power to Republican lawmakers.

www.nytimes.com

Here are the most significant changes to voting in the state, as written into the new law:​

• Voters will now have less time to request absentee ballots.
• There are strict new ID requirements for absentee ballots.
• It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.
• Drop boxes still exist … but barely.
• Mobile voting centers (think an R.V. where you can vote) are essentially banned.
• Early voting is expanded in a lot of small counties, but probably not in more populous ones.
• Offering food or water to voters waiting in line now risks misdemeanor charges.
• If you go to the wrong polling place, it will be (even) harder to vote.
• If election problems arise, a common occurrence, it is now more difficult to extend voting hours.
• With a mix of changes to vote-counting, high-turnout elections will probably mean a long wait for results.
• Election officials can no longer accept third-party funding (a measure that nods to right-wing conspiracy theories).
• With an eye toward voter fraud, the state attorney general will manage an election hotline.
• The Republican-controlled legislature has more control over the State Election Board.
• The secretary of state is removed as a voting member of the State Election Board.
• The G.O.P.-led legislature is empowered to suspend county election officials.
• Runoff elections will happen faster — and could become harder to manage.

@Gameface this is the most thorough article that I’ve read on the new Georgia voting laws. Let me know if you can’t access it.

 

[LogGrad98]

Would you prefer that no one bring a counter perspective on the topic?

I could respond "Very nice of you to spout the Lib talking points" after 90% of the comments on this thread.

Most people prefer that. Confirmation bias is human nature. We are comfortable when we don't have to challenge our opinions or perspectives. It takes a certain level of maturity to consider opposing viewpoints and lend them credibility. Most people are incapable of this, or just unwilling.

 

[LogGrad98]

The notion that 'no one can offer basic comfort to a person who has been standing in line for 4 hours' is related to voter fraud in what way?

When was the last time you stood in line several hours to vote? Do that and then tell me it has no effect on your willingness to vote.

The longest I have stood in line to vote was in south ogden Utah and we were in line for nearly 2 hours. Definitely thought about waking away, considering Utah is largely a "wasted vote" kind of state.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Most people prefer that. Confirmation bias is human nature. We are comfortable when we don't have to challenge our opinions or perspectives. It takes a certain level of maturity to consider opposing viewpoints and lend them credibility. Most people are incapable of this, or just unwilling.

I think you’re right in the confirmation basis, just not in the way you intended. Republicans are making **** up to explain away their boy’s loss and to justify minority rule in enacting voter suppression laws.

The counter to “all the lib points” is to admit The Big Lie. It is to admit that there was rampant voter fraud. Even Republican officials in Trump’s own administration found no impactful fraud (Bill Barr). State officials confirmed clean elections (GA Sec of State Brad Raffensberger).
Why is it to hard for Republicans to admit that their boy lost?

• He lost the popular vote in 2016.
• He did nothing over 4 years to win over liberal allies.
• And in the last year of his presidency he was impeached twice and oversaw 400,000 Americans while downplaying the pandemic.

Maybe he lost in 2020 because he just wasn’t very popular and voters didn’t want 4 more years of his ****?

What evidence do Republicans have of voter fraud to justify these laws? If they don’t have evidence of fraud, why are these laws being enacted? Could they be lost in confirmation bias by just repeating Trump’s Big Lie?

Are they just unable or unwilling to admit that maybe they lost a clean election?