Welcome to 'Murica

[Jamezz]

Wait, so a burglar walks into my home holding a gun, and he's going to give me the chance to go get my gun, which as a responsible owner I keep under key, load it, remove the safety lock, and then shoot him? Who's robbing me here, Larry, Curly, or Moe?

Ugh, moving on...

 

[Stoked]

That doesn't answer my question. Would YOU be willing to shoot a cop or soldier enforcing a legal order?

There is so much more to this scenario. What are said police and soldiers, those that comply, doing when they receive a no from someone? How are they treating people that resist?

Even this is not black and white.
Me personally, I would not shoot said person unless I felt my life was in danger. But I promise you that I know people that would great said officers in force and deny them access to their homes and neighborhoods. Then what?

What happens to the military and cops who fail to enforce this order or openly defy it (numerous sheriffs are on record saying they would openly defy such an order)?

How are people going to react when they come to your neighborhood and your neighbor starts fighting back and it gets violent and he gets shot?

What happens when the sheriff of Podunk UT (or TX, TN, GA, MS, AK, MT, OK, AR...) says they will not enforce this order and will not allow it to be enforced within their jurisdiction?

This gets sloppy so many ways so quickly. Someone some where will defy and then another and another and another...

The mountain west, plains states and south are very different ideologically than the pacific coast, great lakes and new England states.

 

[Stoked]

I think the steps that need to be taken in order to help stop things like this from happening lies largely at the feet of gun advocates and the NRA. The gun control lobby can only do so much to address all the issues we've discussed here. Many gun advocates agree with possible solutions like mental health advocacy, common sense gun laws, etc., but are totally unwilling to work with the other side, let alone bring their own plan to the table.

So, if you're going to argue for limited gun restrictions, and as an unintended consequence gun end up in the wrong hands, what are you going to do to help ensure the safety of those who are left vulnerable?

I see gun advocates talking big when it comes to the 2nd Amendment, but remember that **** ain't free and comes with consequences and responsibilities. So far, I haven't seen groups like the NRA address either.

If I'm wrong, please educate me.

Good post. GF has touched on the damage the NRA is actually doing to guns rights. I agree that the NRA has done very little to nothing to help the problem.

To me they are as extreme as those calling for a full gun ban. But in today's America it is all or nothing. Black or white. They ignore the million shades of grey that we really live in.

I am pro guns but fully believe that are several steps that can be taken to alleviate a very real and very complicated problem. Which includes but is not limited to re-examining how guns are obtained and who can get them.

 

[Stoked]

Wait, so a burglar walks into my home holding a gun, and he's going to give me the chance to go get my gun, which as a responsible owner I keep under key, load it, remove the safety lock, and then shoot him? Who's robbing me here, Larry, Curly, or Moe?

A CC permit hold could very well have their firearm on them.

In my case they are in my bed side safe. 4 key strokes and it opens and my weapon is right there. Already loaded with no safety. I have dogs so will be awoken and most likely have time to retrieve my weapon before confronting a thief. I doubt they rush straight to my room in the 15 seconds it takes to get my weapon.

But anything can happen and I pray I never have to find out.

 

[JimLes]

In my case they are in my bed side safe. 4 key strokes and it opens and my weapon is right there. Already loaded with no safety. I have dogs so will be awoken and most likely have time to retrieve my weapon before confronting a thief. I doubt they rush straight to my room in the 15 seconds it takes to get my weapon.

So every time your dogs bark in the night, you wake up and reach straight for the pistol?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

I am pro guns but fully believe that are several steps that can be taken to alleviate a very real and very complicated problem. Which includes but is not limited to re-examining how guns are obtained and who can get them.

And how would that have prevented (or at the very least affected) the most recent mass shooting? No mental illness. All purchased legally with background checks.

 

[Stoked]

And how would that have prevented (or at the very least affected) the most recent mass shooting? No mental illness. All purchased legally with background checks.

No system is perfect. Not even an unrealistic gun ban. It could have helped prevent Sandy hook, Aurora, Columbine...

 

[Stoked]

So every time your dogs bark in the night, you wake up and reach straight for the pistol?

Are you unable to tell when a dog is barking at some random noise or when a dog is aggressive? Are you unable to accept that many guns, as evidenced by the burglars that get shot by people, are more obtainable than opening a safe, loading, removing a safety...

Come on man. No world is so black and white. Stop dealing in absolutes.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

No system is perfect. Not even an unrealistic gun ban. It could have helped prevent Sandy hook, Aurora, Columbine...

How?

Are gun laws REALLY the reason the US has a staggeringly higher gun violence rate?

Why is this entire topic nothing but ideological hypotheticals?

Only thing to be taken from this thread so far:

"Fewer guns would be nice but it'll never happen."

Thanks, guys. Hopefully I'm not a victim in the next mass shooting, 'cause nothing will be changed. The public is so enamored with each individual's own idealism that it takes more than a rate of a mass killing every few months to get me to reevaluate my position.

 

[JimLes]

Are you unable to tell when a dog is barking at some random noise or when a dog is aggressive? Are you unable to accept that many guns, as evidenced by the burglars that get shot by people, are more obtainable than opening a safe, loading, removing a safety...

How many burglars get shot by people versus people who get shot by burglars? Since you don't like dealing in absolutes, maybe we should look at statistics. In other words, surely we can get some sort of an idea of how likely a gun in the hands of the homeowner is to prevent a robbery.

 

[Stoked]

How many burglars get shot by people versus people who get shot by burglars? Since you don't like dealing in absolutes, maybe we should look at statistics. In other words, surely we can get some sort of an idea of how likely a gun in the hands of the homeowner is to prevent a robbery.

It would be a good study to look at.

Changing gears. Let's put the gun ban discussion aside for a minute.

To me there has to be something mentally wrong with these mass shooters. Agreed?

Sandyhook for example. How far out was that man that he could sit there and look these children in eyes and then kill them. To hear their cries and see their bodies. Sweet lord it gives me chills just typing that. Look at all the recent shootings. It is all the time now!

So aside from taking weapons away why are people going crazy/insane?

I think it is a variety of things.

Lack of focus on family structure (2 parents living in the same home with their kids, involved), worsening and politicizing of education, the growing embrace of violence, drugs, intimacy by entertainment (music, books, movies...), prescription drug addiction, over using prescriptions for anything (everyone is suddenly ADD)...

What is driving more and more Americans bat crap crazy.

 

[gandalfe]

If cops came asking for my guns no I wouldn't shoot them you dumb dumb...

Yay! Ad hominem!

But that's just me. As Howard said maybe somebody would causing an escalation nationwide. I still don't understand why you're taking the conversation there. Everything should be solved by peaceful means if possible. Violence should always be the last resort on both sides of the spectrum.

But that's the point. Everyone says, "Oh, SOMEONE would shoot at cops, but not me..."

I'm saying it's a red herring. And, again, as has been mentioned before, the concept that people would disobey laws, even violently, has never been a reason not to enact them.