What does LeBron need to do to surpass Jordan?

[Fabtrey]

I don't want to take away from the greatness of Bird and Magic, but yes, I'd take LeBron over them. I think most will have a hard time disagreeing after he wins his third consecutive title this summer.

lebron is a better athlete than bird with a better defense, but bird is better than bron in alot of categories. much better basketball IQ, playmaking ability, rebounding ability, and scoring ability. only reason Bird didn't avg 30+ every year is 80's didn't believe in shooting 3's. things that Bird did on the court was beyond ridiculous. true genius of the game. and Bird was legit 6ft 9 1/2. good 2 inches taller than bron. in today's league bird would be listed at 6ft 11. so basically bird was 6ft 11 SF which makes up for his lack of great athleticism. and his lack of athleticism didn't stop him from dominating much more athletic guys like nique.

but i agree that bron will surpass bird in career achievement easily. bird played in a tougher era, and his career was cut short.

 

[Fabtrey]

no doubt Lebron is a great player. he will be top 5 when it's all said and done. but he will never surpass jordan. so his ceiling is #2.

 

[Fabtrey]

pre 1965 and after 1965 is very different. you can really see the game getting better and better every year. players learn quickly. by the time in late 60's and early 70's, basketball really started to look like basketball.

and it was big men oriented for many teams. try stopping 7ft 2 athletic and skilled lou alcindor. not as easy as you think. my coach always told kids = simple always wins.

1. don't try to do too much
2. don't do things that you can't do
3. do what you can do over and over and master it

today's players know more. they have infinitely more skill sets with the ball. step back, crossovers, etc, etc. these moves are great. fancy. if you watch dwight howard, he actually has various post moves. but he never mastered any of his moves. it's all over the place. his footwork is still a mess.

for guards - i'm sure stephen curry has more dribbling 'moves' than john stockton. Curry can handle the rock. he probably has at least 10 more fancy moves than our own stockton. watch the tape and stockton plays like true old school PG. but like my coach said simple always wins. Jordan never had variety of moves. Jordan really didn't do much step back. he never had fancy dribbling skills. Jordan's game was actually very simple - attack, attack, attack. and when he got older and lost that mad hops, he post you up and fade you way.

simple, simple, simple. basketball is a simple game.

 

[carolinajazz]

thats basically cj's opinion. If Al played in the 60's he'd probably average 60 points a game.

....if Big Al played against Wilt and Russell.....he would have NEVER ever scored in double figures, let alone score 60 points! They both would have had double digit blocks per game playing against that clown! He would have been so intimidated by both Wilt and Russell that the ball boy wouldn't have been cleaning up sweat....it would have been urine!

 

[Deleted member 848]

....if Big Al played against Wilt and Russell.....he would have NEVER ever scored in double figures, let alone score 60 points! They both would have had double digit blocks per game playing against that clown! He would have been so intimidated by both Wilt and Russell that the ball boy wouldn't have been cleaning up sweat....it would have been urine!

There are numerous scrubs from the 60s who drained double digits against both players. Pull your head out of your ***-- your hyperboles are tiresome, and contribute nothing to this board.

 

[fishonjazz]

Carolina, what is it you don't like about LeBron other than the fact that he plays in the 21st century and that you've probably never seen him play in a basketball game?

Is the efficient shooting? The fact that he's a willing and skilled passer? That he comes to play every night? That he works hard and improves his game each summer? That he hits the boards? That he defends every position? That he's a winner? That he doesn't get in trouble off the court?

A lot of the hate for Lebron comes from the decision. Pretty stupid and irrational if you ask me. It was a small error in judgment that hurt no one, and in fact helped a kids charity. That stuff was way over blown.


Like everything you just said, he doesn't have any faults or weaknesses, and by all accounts seems to be a good guy. Its amazing he isnt appreciated more.

Yup

Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[Fabtrey]

Big Al will be Big Al in any era. his game is actually very old school.

today's players will do well in 60's - but they would also have to deal with ridiculous shoes, no trainers, tiring bus trips, awful locker room, etc, etc. you have to be mentally strong to play in the 60's. physical part is just half the story. you really have to love the game to endure all that. and sorry, no 3pters. and there will be NFL like hard fouls.

 

[carolinajazz]

..... your hyperboles are tiresome, and contribute nothing to this board.

...to the contrary, my "hyperboles" are quite hilarious and appreciated by many! To even mention or hint that Al Jefferson would have scored 60 points back in Wilt's day...now THAT is hyperbole at it's finest....and most ludicrous! Chances Al Jefferson gets into the Basketball HOF? ZERO! Chances he gets 1 single, solitary vote? ZERO! And that, my friend is not hyperbole....but FACT!

 

[Fabtrey]

...to the contrary, my "hyperboles" are quite hilarious and appreciated by many! To even mention or hint that Al Jefferson would have scored 60 points back in Wilt's day...now THAT is hyperbole at it's finest....and most ludicrous! Chances Al Jefferson gets into the Basketball HOF? ZERO! Chances he gets 1 single, solitary vote? ZERO! And that, my friend is not hyperbole....but FACT!

who? your alter ego? your hyperboles are disgustingly awful. your abuse on '!' is even worse.

 

[8]

Big Al will be Big Al in any era. his game is actually very old school.

today's players will do well in 60's - but they would also have to deal with ridiculous shoes, no trainers, tiring bus trips, awful locker room, etc, etc. you have to be mentally strong to play in the 60's. physical part is just half the story. you really have to love the game to endure all that. and sorry, no 3pters. and there will be NFL like hard fouls.

This is terrible argument, think about it for a second

 

[fishonjazz]

lebron is a better athlete than bird with a better defense, but bird is much better basketball IQ, playmaking ability, rebounding ability, and scoring ability.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong

Lebrons bbiq is off the charts, lebron is a better ballhandler/passer/playmaker for teammates, lebron is a better rebounder, lebron is a better and much more efficient scorer. (He shooting like 60 percent from the field, gets to the line alot, and shoots a good 3 point percentage)

Also better on the defensive end

 

[fishonjazz]

he will never surpass jordan. so his ceiling is #2.

This is probably true

 

[Fabtrey]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong

Lebrons bbiq is off the charts, lebron is a better ballhandler/passer/playmaker for teammates, lebron is a better rebounder, lebron is a better and much more efficient scorer. (He shooting like 60 percent from the field, gets to the line alot, and shoots a good 3 point percentage)

Also better on the defensive end

in what world lebron is a better rebounder than bird? that's absolutely wrong. bird in that stacked team avg. 10 rebounds his ENTIRE CAREER. and i consider bird top 3 playmaker of all time. career 6.3 assists is ridiculous when you factor in how he played the game. unlike bron, bird didn't have basketball in his hands all the time. he never really was a point forward. he was true to his position, but play went through him. better passer? that's highly debatable. go watch some bird highlights. bron doesn't have bird's creativity. passing is definitely wash, but bird was far more eye candy for sure.

and bron has a high basketball IQ, but bird has the all time greatest basketball IQ. honestly, nobody really comes close when it comes to basketball IQ. he really was the einstein of basketball.

and if you really believe bron is more efficient scorer than you really do not know anything about basketball. really. i can't discuss with anybody who just looks at the stat sheet and assumes so and so is a better shooter.

bron did improve his shooting. but there is a reason why he is shooting 57.3% this year(not 60%). and bron so far in his career is .496% shooter in his career. you can't just erase his first 8 years where he was inconsistent at best at shooting. and ask yourself why he is shooting such high % right now. it will enlighten you.

i can't put bron up there yet when it comes to shooting. yes, he has gotten better. i think he will continue to shoot well. but i have to see more.

 

[Fabtrey]

so disrespectful

 

[Fabtrey]

This is terrible argument, think about it for a second

i thought about it for 2 min, and i'm still right. dem boys back in 60's didn't have it so easy. go buy a pair of chuck taylors and try ball in them after 5 hour bus trip in a gym without AC.

 

[fishonjazz]

so disrespectful

Lol.
Bill simmons, who is probably the biggest larry bird homer in the world, even thinks lebron is better

 

[8]

i thought about it for 2 min, and i'm still right. dem boys back in 60's didn't have it so easy. go buy a pair of chuck taylors and try ball in them after 5 hour bus trip in a gym without AC.

It's still an awful argument.

They were not aware of the alternatives.

This would only be a factor if current players used time travel.

If they had been born earlier they would have been in the same position.

Also, I'm pretty sure they didn't drive buses around for five hours inside gyms, even if it was the 60's.

 

[Fabtrey]

Lol.
Bill simmons, who is probably the biggest larry bird homer in the world, even thinks lebron is better

depends on how you look at it. patrick ewing was better than shaq in almost every area, but shaq was a better player.

bron will have much better career than bird no doubt. longevity counts. i can't ignore bron's overall impact and athleticism.
but the impact on the court is much closer than you think. if i have to win 1 game or a 7 game series, i take bird and not even think twice about it. if i want to build a team, then i'll take bron.

 

[Fabtrey]

It's still an awful argument.

They were not aware of the alternatives.

This would only be a factor if current players used time travel.

If they had been born earlier they would have been in the same position.

Also, I'm pretty sure they didn't drive buses around for five hours inside gyms, even if it was the 60's.

yes they did. especially in early 60's. if it was 5-8 hour driving distance, they almost always took a bus. it's well documented.

you can't compare era to era. but if you have to compare era to era you have to put today's player in a time machine and let them play the basketball in a same condition. IMO that's the most logical way to do it.

wilt & russell played 45+ min every damn night in these. just look at it.

Bron can't even stand his own shoe(most expensive, most technology packed shoe ever), so he switches shoe during games. it's pretty big deal in sneaker community. and imagine bron or any baller playing 48 min every damn night in that awful shoe which doesn't have any cushioning, heel support, and etc. and bron complains about friggin jersey for his poor shooting.

this is bron's last year shoe.

wilt's shoe will get .5/10 in all categories.

you won't find these anymore. today's converses aren't exactly like these vintage converses. it has gotten better. think Wrangler. same basic off road car, but gotten better over the years.

those shoe were not a basketball shoe. imagine Shaq stepping on your foot. 1 or 2 games, you'll survive. entire season? your foot will hurt. ankle too. and then knee. i really can't even imagine playing full season clocking 45+ min every night in those shoe without having some serious foot problems.

and this argument makes sense because what happens if 60's players play in today's shoe? they would feel like they are flyin. i have to assume it will help their performance drastically. have more bounce in their steps. No more blisters. less ankle injuries, less sweat, and just much more comfort for 48 min every night.


and there is a reason today's players have longer careers. better doctors, better medicine, better shoe, better everything. it's much easier to take care of your body today. there is no debate.

 

[carolinajazz]

and bron has a high basketball IQ, but bird has the all time greatest basketball IQ. honestly, nobody really comes close when it comes to basketball IQ. he really was the einstein of basketball.

....I'm not going to diss Bird's basketball IQ....so I'm going with this: Bird 1a. Stockton 1b. Karl Malone 1c. 3 smartest NBA players EVER!