What Happened to Katie?

[TroutBum]

Are you saying that children are the only ones that can be affected by sexual predators and they are the only ones we should think about or worry about?

I also know males who have masturbated in bathrooms at work and school. I don't know any women that have, but I don't think many women would tell me about it if they did. I would assume that a female has masturbated in a public restroom before though. I understand that the perception is that females are less sexual than men but I would bet that it happens.

So again, I'm not arguing that transgenders should not be allowed in women's bathrooms. We both agree that they should.
But you brought up a new argument. What goes on in bathrooms? You seem to think peeing and pooping only. I'm telling you that due to experience I know that to not be the case. Do you agree with that?

So again, there could be a scenario, however unlikely, where a woman is doing something in a bathroom besides peeing or pooping that could potentially be affected by a sexual predator who normally would not enter a women's bathroom but who sees transgenders as males, just like himself, being allowed into females bathrooms and feels that now it's ok for him to go into the bathroom or sees the new laws as a loophole for him to exploit.

Again, this is a sexual predator who doesn't think logically and whose brain doesn't function properly.

Tell me more about this whole "girls ************ in a public restroom" business... I'm, uh, writing an expose on the subject and could use some video evidence if available. PM for details.

 

[fishonjazz]

Tell me more about this whole "girls ************ in a public restroom" business... I'm, uh, writing an expose on the subject and could use some video evidence if available. PM for details.

That many asterisks has me excited and confused.

I hated this conversing btw and hated the part I played in it. Let's never bump it again and try to forget it ever happened.

 

[Scat]

Amazing... Katie and being transgender comes up and Trout comes our of the ether.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

That many asterisks has me excited and confused.

I hated this conversing btw and hated the part I played in it. Let's never bump it again and try to forget it ever happened.

Wow, so Kicky's prediction for your opinion of your posts came true in a fraction of the time he guessed? I still believe that genitals rather than gender identity is the best way to handle bathroom/locker room/dressing room issues. Seems like a massive can of worms that simply did not need to be opened. The answer could have been so easy: "You've got a penis, go to the men's room."

 

[fishonjazz]

Wow, so Kicky's prediction for your opinion of your posts came true in a fraction of the time he guessed? I still believe that genitals rather than gender identity is the best way to handle bathroom/locker room/dressing room issues. Seems like a massive can of worms that simply did not need to be opened. The answer could have been so easy: "You've got a penis, go to the men's room."

But I imagine myself in the men's room and seeing what looks to be a woman walk in and being like wtf are you doing in here, you need to go to the women's restroom.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

But I imagine myself in the men's room and seeing what looks to be a woman walk in and being like wtf are you doing in here, you need to go to the women's restroom.

Have you never been in the men's room and seen woman walk in? My thought is "welcome to the party, but please don't try to use a urinal". On the other hand, I have daughters. What happens when a transgender wants to shower with them? Apparently everyone else needs to accommodate so that this very small minority who are confused about their gender can feel comfortable. Seems completely backwards to me.

 

[NAOS]

This thread is a complete train wreck. Pretty much the only post I could relate to was SKA's discussion of trade-offs vs freedoms and [MENTION=643]Jazz Spazz[/MENTION] post about drawing a line in the sand. We've gone through this discussion with TSA, NY Subway, etc. This is no different.





Sexual violence against women is widespread. You would be surprised how many women you know have been raped or abused by someone they know. An uncle, older brother, grandparent, boyfriend... Maybe chivalry is dead, but my vote is against this declaration over my want to protect women. [MENTION=249]NAOS[/MENTION] go ahead and call me a rapist culture fear monger but you and I know it exists and I personally feel this creates a strict environment for abuse.

----------


One thing that hasn't been discussed is creating some discriminatory practice of registering transgendered people to create some sort of barrier between the average man and a true trans. I don't think anyone really GAF if a dude who thinks he's a chick uses the women's restroom. However, creating that environment as a solution is as discriminatory as you can get. Just a random thought as an extension to the convo.

Also [MENTION=26]Gameface[/MENTION], the sign is not the barrier. It is the people around the sign who act as monitors to that barrier and can alert on odd behavior.

I'm allergic to any argument where all you need to do is change the nouns and you're right back in the Jim Crow south.

 

[TroutBum]

Here's a solution for everyone: build a gender neutral bathroom. There are already "Family" bathrooms at tons of places, so why not just have an "open" unit for those people that don't care. Win/Win, imho. Of course, most places don't have the room or the money to make one, but legislation could be put in place as far as new builds and remodels are concerned.

I get it, it's still government overreach, etc. but it is a better idea than just saying "free for all!"

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Here's a solution for everyone: build a gender neutral bathroom. There are already "Family" bathrooms at tons of places, so why not just have an "open" unit for those people that don't care. Win/Win, imho. Of course, most places don't have the room or the money to make one, but legislation could be put in place as far as new builds and remodels are concerned.

I get it, it's still government overreach, etc. but it is a better idea than just saying "free for all!"

What portion of the population are we talking about? It's a fraction of a percent, and there's already a place for these people to go to the bathroom which has been working fine, with virtually no issues, for generations. Do you really think it makes sense to introduce a government mandate to accommodate this group that is almost non-existent? The family bathroom is a great idea for developers who want to build it, but please don't let the government mandate it.

 

[JazzGal]

Law of Unintended Consequences - get everyone freaked out about who should use what restroom, and horrible things begin to happen.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=39912485&nid=148&title=man-says-he-was-attacked-for-taking-5-year-old-daughter-inside-mens-restroom

CLINTON — A trip to the men’s restroom at a Walmart in Clinton quickly escalated into a full-fledged struggle when one man criticized another for bringing his 5-year-old daughter with him.

Christopher Adams said his 7-year-old son, Kyler, and 5-year-old daughter, Emery, both had to go when the family visited the store Sunday to buy blinds and storage bins, so he took them both inside the men’s restroom in the back of the store.

“This guy walks in and goes to the bathroom, the urinal,” Adams recalled Tuesday. “Then he just, like, turns to me and starts freaking out, dropping the ‘F-bomb,’ and what he was freaking out about was that my daughter was in the men’s bathroom.”

Adams said the man told him it was “inappropriate,” and soon began to push him after Adams gave him a terse response.

The father said he tried to usher his kids away from the man.

“When I turned back around, I got sucker-punched right here,” Adams said, pointing to his left eye, which still was bruised.

From there, Adams said he was punched in the face and kicked in the knee multiple times during the struggle in which the dad ultimately defended himself, forcing the man out of the restroom.

“I just slammed him on the ground and just held him until associates from Walmart could get there,” Adams said.

Clinton Police Lt. Shawn Stoker said the man was cited at the scene for disorderly conduct, and the city attorney was screening a potential assault charge.

Police initially declined to name the man.

Stoker acknowledged Adams did what many parents would do to protect their children in public places.

“This is a situation where a father felt the most reasonable and safe thing for him to do is to take his children inside the restroom with him, and the customer took exception to that,” Stoker said.

Stoker said better ways for people to address their concerns about what they see in public restrooms include notifying store employees or even calling police.

Adams, who said he still was experiencing intense pain in his knee and may have possibly suffered broken cartilage around his ribs, maintained he didn’t want to leave his 5-year-old daughter by herself or have her go into another restroom alone.

“I just think it’s ridiculous,” he said of the man’s outburst. “Not necessarily his intention — but the way he handled the situation was completely wrong.”

 

[TroutBum]

What portion of the population are we talking about? It's a fraction of a percent, and there's already a place for these people to go to the bathroom which has been working fine, with virtually no issues, for generations. Do you really think it makes sense to introduce a government mandate to accommodate this group that is almost non-existent? The family bathroom is a great idea for developers who want to build it, but please don't let the government mandate it.

Why does it matter what % of the population is TG? I suppose by your logic, it was a mistake and waste of time to implement the ADA? I mean really, how many handicapped people in wheelchairs are there? In essence, the ADA was an important piece of legislation, and I'd like to see something similar for the % of the population -- regardless of size -- for the TG community.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Why does it matter what % of the population is TG? I suppose by your logic, it was a mistake and waste of time to implement the ADA? I mean really, how many handicapped people in wheelchairs are there? In essence, the ADA was an important piece of legislation, and I'd like to see something similar for the % of the population -- regardless of size -- for the TG community.

You're talking about the difference between making accommodations for a portion of the population who cannot participate in society without those accommodations, and making accommodations for a group who can function completely fine as is. Besides this, I heard the current government mandate read on the radio yesterday. It specifically said that transgendered people should not have to use their own special facilities. If that is really their position then your solution wouldn't work anyway. (BTW, if that really is their position I think it's pretty clear that this whole issue is more about creating a problem than solving one.)