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What the hell?

This happened in Pleasant Grove? Wow. Not even Utah County is safe these days!
 
Zombie said:
It's a direct result of policies supported and fought for by the GOP nationwide, full knowing what the ramifications of such policies would be.
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They planned these policies with the idea in mind of charging someone with manslaughter after they got shot in the stomach while pregnant? Seems awful specific.
 
Zombie said:
It's a direct result of policies supported and fought for by the GOP nationwide, full knowing what the ramifications of such policies would be.
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I don't know that they anticipated this.

But this is the logical conclusion of stand-your-ground plus "abortion is murder" in a case where defense lethal force is used against a pregnant woman who loses her baby as a result.

Rubashov, what don't you get?

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but after reading more about this story to get, you know, more details and context I learned the story is the pregnant girl and three of her friends attacked the shooter. She continued to fight her and the shooter shot her in the stomach. After being shot, she went to the convenience store and that's where they found her.

Manslaughter is considered in a person's death in the commission of a crime (if she was in fact guilty in the attack.) The allegeded orchestrated attacks against the shooter was the crime and resulted in the death of the baby. From what I understand, the law states that if a pregnant woman is murdered that unborn child is counted as a homicide too. So doesn't it fit the description as manslaughter?

Sadly, it's one of those really rare and unique situations that's being politicized to drag in the stupid abortion laws to make them look worse. To me, this isn't an "abortion" issue at all and it's very short sighted to think so (unless I'm missing something.)


Context goes a long ways, you know?
 
DasJazz said:
The problem here is that Alabama is a stand your ground state and the pregnant woman was the clear initiator and pursuer of the conflict. She therefore willingly put her baby at risk.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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The real problem is that stand your ground laws lead to an escalation in altercations, as people feel justified to use deadly force. Situations that start as simple battery turn into shootouts.

To respond to other posts, I'm sure no one expected this particular course of events but opponents of stand your ground laws argued the increase in lethality during altercations. And of course the horror of a mother being held criminally responsible for the loss of a fetus she didn't intend was one of the main points those opposed to that particular law brought up.
 
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I think people are finally becoming wise to the “pro life” movement. It’s really not about protecting life. It never was. It’s about controlling women and keeping them as subservient to men. For years this turd has been disguised with fudge and whipped cream with the claims of “protecting life” and abstinence only education.

But it’s pretty obvious how in 2019 that the game was never about that. Much like how the tea baggers claimed to be concerned with deficit spending and are now silent, the “pro life” movement has been revealed for the being the anti-choice and anti-feminist movement that it is. It’s nothing more than a group of misogynistic overly religious bastards, like their cousins in the Taliban and ISIS.

Had the pro life movement actually cared about life?

- They’d be up in arms with the way life is being treated at the border.
- They’d advocate for comprehensive sex education, not advocate for abstinence only education or the abolition of sex education in public schools. Abstinence only has proven to be ineffective for decades.
- They’d demand far greater access to health care for women, not make it more restrictive.
- They’d advocate for educational and financial support for poor women and children, not cuts.
- They’d celebrate LGBT parents adopting and creating a loving and caring environment for children, not making it harder for LGBT parents to adopt.
- Lastly, these laws recently passed in regressive low information red states unveils what the pro life movement was all about. Seeing a woman charged with manslaughter because she was shot while pregnant reveals once more that the “pro life” movement doesn’t actually value life.

I really despise the “pro life” movement. I spit on what they’re doing to our country.

If you’re honestly for life but recognize the need for choice, I can respect you. I mostly agree that abortion should be used sparingly. However, it’s a personal decision for a woman to decide. Under no circumstance should government weigh in on this issue. That fundamental right should never be restricted, limited, or taken away. Women are not merely vessels for men to pump their sperm into.

And don’t even get me started on our ridiculous gun laws. Sheesh. The French have an abnormal obsession with smoking. It’s ingrained into their culture. Likewise, our country has a sick obsession with guns. These laws need to be re-evaluated.
 
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Zombie said:
The real problem is that stand your ground laws lead to an escalation in altercations, as people feel justified to use deadly force. Situations that start as simple battery turn into shootouts.

To respond to other posts, I'm sure no one expected this particular course of events but opponents of stand your ground laws argued the increase in lethality during altercations. And of course the horror of a mother being held criminally responsible for the loss of a fetus she didn't intend was one of the main points those opposed to that particular law brought up.
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I don't necessarily disagree with your statement. But again, this girl and her cronies went looking for trouble and as luck would have it, trouble found her.
 
DasJazz said:
I don't necessarily disagree with your statement. But again, this girl and her cronies went looking for trouble and as luck would have it, trouble found her.
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Sure, I'm not going to defend her actions, but manslaughter charges for someone who was shot while pregnant is beyond ****ed up.
 
Zombie said:
Sure, I'm not going to defend her actions, but manslaughter charges for someone who was shot while pregnant is beyond ****ed up.
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She wouldn't of been shot if she didn't attack the other person. This is truly a case where context is everything.
 
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