What would you do if one of the Jazz sits or kneels for the National Anthem ??

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I have typed and deleted three responses. This is way to broad of a statement on way to broad of a subject.

Things are not that simple.

What's so hard to understand about we not understanding how blacks feel about how they are treated hand how good they have it compared to us. All I'm saying is if we really knew and understood how they have it we wouldn't find the protest so offensive.


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[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I have typed and deleted three responses. This is way to broad of a statement on way to broad of a subject.

Things are not that simple.

We need to change the way we think because it boggles my mind that posters here think that this protest is offensive. I don't believe any of you are racist, so in my opinion people don't realize just how bad the problem of inequality is or the problem of police brutality. Our eyes need to be open so the right messages of this protest are coming out


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[Stoked]

What's so hard to understand about we not understanding how blacks feel about how they are treated hand how good they have it compared to us. All I'm saying is if we really knew and understood how they have it we wouldn't find the protest so offensive.


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That a big assumption. No issue is that simple. It is just not.

Also you are missing POV biases. In both whites and blacks (in this case specifically). Also "whites" and "blacks" are far to broad in the grouping sense as there are opinions all over the place within the same groups.

I do find your ability to understand Kaep and his stance to be entertaining when you turn around and express inability to understand those offended by his actions. To me neither are hard to understand.

You look at things in a very narrow prism. At least that is how I am understanding what you're saying.

 

[Harcher]

Hate? Where is the hate?

Rosa Parks didn't ruffle any feathers? Are you kidding? What, you think all the whites back then slapped themselves upside the head and said "Dang, Rosa, you are so right. What were we thinking?" Or did they continue with Jim Crow and lynchings and bombings and burning churches?

My original post was TLDR. (And I don't post during the day, so I couldn't get right back to you on this.)

Summary: Wearing socks with cops as pigs is a statement of prejudice/hate. Protesting the national anthem is a disrespectful act.

Here is the TLDR version:

It is not boneheaded to express your constitutional rights.

It is boneheaded to protest using hate and disrespect. That is what CK is doing and that is why we should ALL see this as a wrong method of protest. Wearing socks that have a prejudice statement on them is hateful. And it is EXACTLY what CK is protesting. That is boneheaded. What if his socks said Women are Pigs? Blacks are Pigs? Jazzfanz are pigs? Is that ok? Is that a protest? All cops are not pigs. Some cops are racist. Some women are racist. Some whites are racist. Some _______ are racist. The very farthest extension of this hate protest is the sniper killing of cops.

Also, while not as clear cut, it is wrong that he is disrespecting the USA and all the persons who have fought, died, volunteered for having a free country and the right to protest. He is disrespecting those who volunteer at schools, coached little league, do city council, etc, etc to make our country great. Racism in this country and any other form of hate is not espoused, codified, or in any manner formally institutionalized by the USA. Women run for president, Blacks make 10s Million a year in their chosen profession, etc. That is not to say there is unjust behavior by individuals, or formalized institutions like a police force. It is possible a whole police agency is racist, due to corruption. But the police/law enforcement as a rule across the USA is not a 'racist org'. So his efforts, in my opinion, are not only wrong but are adding to the racial divide. Many of you reading this are preparing to write about the injustices of the minority communities which constitutes 'institutionalized racism'. That's real. That's debatable as to the extent/manner, but it is not codified "women can't hold office" or "blacks count as 2/3 of a citizen." Stuff like that.

So - he is boneheaded for using hate and disrespect as his method to 'protest'. If, for example, he organized a rally in downtown SF and wore shirts and socks and held signs that were NOT labeled with hate, but rather a plea for justice, and did so as a law abiding citizen, I would give him two thumbs up. If I lived there, I might join him. But even moreso, if he were to use his fame and money for a community outreach program with cops and citizens, I would become a 49fan. (That's saying a lot.)

 

[Harcher]

I will disagree with number 2. Not the biggest fan of how Kaep is protesting but that is not the message he is sending. It is obviously the message that many are receiving but not what he is sending. Those are not one and the same. He has come out publicly stating this is not anti American or anti military.

As for the rest, what is "hateful" and offensive to one will not be "hateful" and offensive to another.

Hmmmm... what the recipient hears is what is transmitter sent regardless of intent. Mistakes in transmission do occur, but don't make your protest harder than it needs to be by adding noise (USA symbol) into the message. In my post above, I outline that using a symbol of USA as your protest method has many people seeing disrespect to all that that symbol stands for.

Your comment on 'what is hateful to one will not be...' also doesn't make sense on some levels. Is wearing socks with cops as pigs hateful or not? If not, then we can do the same with women, blacks, latino's etc and see how that goes over.

 

[Harcher]

We need to change the way we think because it boggles my mind that posters here think that this protest is offensive. I don't believe any of you are racist, so in my opinion people don't realize just how bad the problem of inequality is or the problem of police brutality. Our eyes need to be open so the right messages of this protest are coming out


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Hmmm to this as well. It boggles my mind that people here don't see how this is offensive for some. This protest is offensive because he's using the USA symbol (flag or anthem) as the protest tool or weapon. (And the hate part is that he's wearing socks with cops as pigs. To me, this sock thing is undeniably wrong.) Not always, but at times when the national anthem is played, I tear up. When the sporting event has a military fly over and national anthem I cry. When I travel to a military base or other locale that has the white crosses for those that died serving our country I cry. I served in the military; my grandpa served in WWII. Seeing a funeral of someone I don't know, but is getting a flag and 21 gun salute makes me cry. Can you possibly see how this might be offensive to some? M

Those who hate the USA often use abuse of the US flag as an act, a symbol, of disdain for USA. So if CK disrespects the flag/anthem, then a very reasonable conclusion is that he is protesting against the USA in general; just like all other images of flag disrespecting people.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Hmmm to this as well. It boggles my mind that people here don't see how this is offensive for some. This protest is offensive because he's using the USA symbol (flag or anthem) as the protest tool or weapon. (And the hate part is that he's wearing socks with cops as pigs. To me, this sock thing is undeniably wrong.) Not always, but at times when the national anthem is played, I tear up. When the sporting event has a military fly over and national anthem I cry. When I travel to a military base or other locale that has the white crosses for those that died serving our country I cry. I served in the military; my grandpa served in WWII. Seeing a funeral of someone I don't know, but is getting a flag and 21 gun salute makes me cry. Can you possibly see how this might be offensive to some? M

Those who hate the USA often use abuse of the US flag as an act, a symbol, of disdain for USA. So if CK disrespects the flag/anthem, then a very reasonable conclusion is that he is protesting against the USA in general; just like all other images of flag disrespecting people.

This is as bad a post as I've seen. Kaep has said plenty of times this isn't anything to do with hating USA or the military.

The hate is coming from those that continue to make this about the military even though Kaep has stated it isn't about the military. Kaep even went out of his way to talk to a vet in coming up with a way to let people know this has nothing to do with the military. This vet in question even said in an interview said he has gained a respect for Kaep.

Last I checked Kaep is sacrificing his livelihood for people that are supposed to have equal rights. Didn't men die for all to have rights and freedom or was it just some people. Every time a cop kills a defenseless black man they are dishonoring the men and women that served and died for the USA.

I don't want to here any damned more that he's disrespecting the military or the flag again. It's ridiculous and ignorant.


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[Harcher]

This is as bad a post as I've seen. Kaep has said plenty of times this isn't anything to do with hating USA or the military.

The hate is coming from those that continue to make this about the military even though Kaep has stated it isn't about the military. Kaep even went out of his way to talk to a vet in coming up with a way to let people know this has nothing to do with the military. This vet in question even said in an interview said he has gained a respect for Kaep.

Last I checked Kaep is sacrificing his livelihood for people that are supposed to have equal rights. Didn't men die for all to have rights and freedom or was it just some people. Every time a cop kills a defenseless black man they are dishonoring the men and women that served and died for the USA.

I don't want to here any damned more that he's disrespecting the military or the flag again. It's ridiculous and ignorant.


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Ok then we disagree on the flag/anthem stuff. But because his INTENT was to not protest the military, doesn't change the fact that it had that effect. I've said things before with no ill intent, but yet I was offending someone. I had to apologize.

Also, you return to arguing the point of the protest - cops killing innocent blacks is bad. I understand his point. I'm not debating that. I'm debating his method. His additional protest action, wearing socks with pigs as cops is a prejudice action. There should be no debate about that. Calling cops "pigs" is long-used derogatory term. Can you tell me that is OK method of protesting police behavior toward blacks?

I think if you don't stand during the national anthem you are disrespecting the USA. It is an American custom indicating respect. Not sure how that is debatable either. Explain to me how i'm ignorant because I understand this to be the custom.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Ok then we disagree on the flag/anthem stuff. But because his INTENT was to not protest the military, doesn't change the fact that it had that effect. I've said things before with no ill intent, but yet I was offending someone. I had to apologize.

Also, you return to arguing the point of the protest - cops killing innocent blacks is bad. I understand his point. I'm not debating that. I'm debating his method. His additional protest action, wearing socks with pigs as cops is a prejudice action. There should be no debate about that. Calling cops "pigs" is long-used derogatory term. Can you tell me that is OK method of protesting police behavior toward blacks?

I think if you don't stand during the national anthem you are disrespecting the USA. It is an American custom indicating respect. Not sure how that is debatable either. Explain to me how i'm ignorant because I understand this to be the custom.

I'm going to say this one last time and this will be the last time u hear from me in this thread, because I feel like none of u want to understand, and don't want to hear what I'm saying. To me lives matter more then a symbol. Right now that symbol isn't covering all equally, and if a man feels like he needs to protest in a none violent way by not doing something that's not against the law, and he isn't required to do so. If Kaep feels there is some kind of injustice going on, and he feels he can't in good conscience stand for the anthem then u have the courage to follow through with your conviction, and u do it because it's the right thing to do, because lives matter more and this is the most important part.

ITS HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO KNEEL THERE FOR I DON'T CARE IF IT HURTS FEELINGS. KAEP IS NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY FEELINGS ARE HURT, BECAUSE ITS HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, AND THAT CANT BE DISPUTED!!

Let me just say I'm a fan of the 49ers. Was born a fan and will die a fan. I'm ready for the 49ers to resume looking for a new franchise qb. With that said I'm in aw of the man Kaep has changed into. He engages with teammates, and doesn't shy away, and seems to have the locker room, and seems to be a leader on that team. This is a complete 180 turnaround from the man that was said to have lost the locker room and couldn't connect with his teammates on the field of play. How is the sacrifice he is making for others with no voice wrong? I find it strange that some are claiming that he's protesting for recognition because he's no longer the starter. That is the biggest ******** I've ever heard. There is a good chance he will be cut or blackballed once his current deal ends. I've even read that a house rep or senator or whatever compared his protest to being sympathetic to ISIS, seriously?!?! That from a man in power in this country.

 

[♪alt13]

^That's more than 1 in 4 young black men! (that image is from the American Conservative so please refrain from making liberal media comments)

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

How would I feel if one of the Jazz players did not go along with the routinized public display of compulsory patriotism? You can probably guess from the previous sentence.

Nothing says 'freedom' quite like compelling people to partake in routinzed, compulsory public displays of patriotism honoring that freedom.

Personally, I engage in my own little act of civic disobedience at Jazz games. When at each Jazz game they honor some member of the military present, I don't stand and applaud with everyone else. It is NOT because I don't respect the military as an institution (I do, with caveats), but because I think, as a society, we've swung too far in the direction of being too uncritical of the military. I worry that it's become socially unacceptable to make public statements, or public demonstrations, against the military, and I think this is a dangerous situation for a civilian-led democracy and free society to be in. (Beside, I suspect that the Military is paying the Jazz for these displays, which I see as a cynical manipulation of fans' patriotism.) Anytime there is such powerful social pressure to praise an institution of power within a society, I see that as a matter of concern. Futher, I believe that nothing, and I mean NOTHING, in a free society should be exempted from free and vigorous public crutiny and criticism. So, I don't make a fuss about it, I just sit quietly doing my own little act of social protest. No one has said anything yet.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

My original post was TLDR. (And I don't post during the day, so I couldn't get right back to you on this.)

Summary: Wearing socks with cops as pigs is a statement of prejudice/hate. Protesting the national anthem is a disrespectful act.

Here is the TLDR version:

It is not boneheaded to express your constitutional rights.

It is boneheaded to protest using hate and disrespect. That is what CK is doing and that is why we should ALL see this as a wrong method of protest. Wearing socks that have a prejudice statement on them is hateful. And it is EXACTLY what CK is protesting. That is boneheaded. What if his socks said Women are Pigs? Blacks are Pigs? Jazzfanz are pigs? Is that ok? Is that a protest? All cops are not pigs. Some cops are racist. Some women are racist. Some whites are racist. Some _______ are racist. The very farthest extension of this hate protest is the sniper killing of cops.

Also, while not as clear cut, it is wrong that he is disrespecting the USA and all the persons who have fought, died, volunteered for having a free country and the right to protest. He is disrespecting those who volunteer at schools, coached little league, do city council, etc, etc to make our country great. Racism in this country and any other form of hate is not espoused, codified, or in any manner formally institutionalized by the USA. Women run for president, Blacks make 10s Million a year in their chosen profession, etc. That is not to say there is unjust behavior by individuals, or formalized institutions like a police force. It is possible a whole police agency is racist, due to corruption. But the police/law enforcement as a rule across the USA is not a 'racist org'. So his efforts, in my opinion, are not only wrong but are adding to the racial divide. Many of you reading this are preparing to write about the injustices of the minority communities which constitutes 'institutionalized racism'. That's real. That's debatable as to the extent/manner, but it is not codified "women can't hold office" or "blacks count as 2/3 of a citizen." Stuff like that.

So - he is boneheaded for using hate and disrespect as his method to 'protest'. If, for example, he organized a rally in downtown SF and wore shirts and socks and held signs that were NOT labeled with hate, but rather a plea for justice, and did so as a law abiding citizen, I would give him two thumbs up. If I lived there, I might join him. But even moreso, if he were to use his fame and money for a community outreach program with cops and citizens, I would become a 49fan. (That's saying a lot.)

Yes by all means protest racial inequities, but by all means don't do it in a way that offends or hurts the feelings of the members of the groups who have historically committed a good share of the racial injustices.

 

[Nate505]

Col. Flagg!!!

Don't play dumb, you're not as good at it as me!

 

[framer]

Yes by all means protest racial inequities, but by all means don't do it in a way that offends or hurts the feelings of the members of the groups who have historically committed a good share of the racial injustices.

Maybe Kaep should wear socks listing the name of all of the former slave holders holding Niner's season tickets. THAT would be powerful.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Maybe Kaep should wear socks listing the name of all of the former slave holders holding Niner's season tickets. THAT would be powerful.

So . . . racism ended with slavery?

I don't get your reply. Is it satire (and if so, well played), or is it sincere (and if so, huh?)

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

What if someone grabbed your dick during the national anthem? Would you stand and salute?

Depends on how hard he squeezed.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Funny how Kaep is getting so much flack for this non-violent protest while former teammate Bruce Miller and the fact that he beat a 70 year old man and his son is getting minimal publicity.

Or consider the complete social media silence on Derrick Rose's rape trial (civil, not criminal).

If a famous athelete (alledgedly) rapes a woman . . . crickets, but if that athlete dares take a social stand that bruises the tender sensibilities of white folks, police officers and the military (all bastions of power within this country) . . . outrage ensues.

One can almost conclude that the amount of outrage one feels at even the tiniest slight is positively and disproportionately correlated with how powerful the agrieved is.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Or consider the complete social media silence on Derrick Rose's rape trial (civil, not criminal).

If a famous athelete (alledgedly) rapes a woman . . . crickets, but if that athlete dares take a social stand that bruises the tender sensibilities of white folks, police officers and the military (all bastions of power within this country) . . . outrage ensues.

One can almost conclude that the amount of outrage one feels at even the tiniest slight is positively and disproportionately correlated with how powerful the agrieved is.

Um? What? What's this about DRose??


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[jimmy eat jazz]

Um? What? What's this about DRose??


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Not sure you're serious, but if you are, point proved.

Here's one of many cites to the topic: https://www.sbnation.com/2016/9/16/12797572/derrick-rose-rape-trial-lawyer-new-york-knicks

 

[Stoked]

https://www.sltrib.com/home/4358703-155/monson-what-if-a-utah-jazz

Monson has been snooping around again lol.