Who gets waived?

[idiot]

One more thing on Bolmaro:

To me a Caruso type career would be a successful one for him. I think Caruso is a model he can legitimately strive for given the talent/tools he possesses (of course he's likely not to get there, but he's 22 so I'm willing to give him a year or two).

 

[idiot]

"potential" is the other word for "in development" i.e "not good enough". until bolmaro shows some stuff that is good enough for the NBA, he will struggle seeing the floor.

No, in this case, I use potential to mean he has really solid tools that you can easily see succeeding at the NBA level. He struggles seeing the floor in the NBA because he is no offensive threat at all, not because his defense is "not good enough."

 

[SoberasHotRod]

If we end up having to waive Butler it will be more evidence we should have taken the Laker deal (at least what I imagine was being discussed).

It's not even that I'm super high on him right now, but there is still a little potential there and we should be in a position to see if guys with even the slightest bit of potential could break through.

 

[idiot]

If we end up having to waive Butler it will be more evidence we should have taken the Laker deal (at least what I imagine was being discussed).

It's not even that I'm super high on him right now, but there is still a little potential there and we should be in a position to see if guys with even the slightest bit of potential could break through.

The thing about the Lakers deal is we've never gotten a good handle on what might or might not have been offered from the Lakers side. I think the closest thing we've seen from TJ (and others) is that the two sides were never all that close.

Yesterday, Trevor Lane, of the Lakers Nation podcast, wondered whether the Lakers even offered any FRPs at all. There's a lot of Laker twitter that I've seen (not all, of course) that seemed to think the Jazz should have been happy enough just having Westbook as an expiring and being able to cut down the roster crunch. In other words, they weren't buying that the Lakers should give anything at all for taking on Westbrook. And since Bogey was not worth an UFP on his own (nor were any combination the Jazz could send in the deal, in their view), the Jazz should have just been happy with minimal draft compensation (such as a protected first or some seconds, maybe).

 

[SoberasHotRod]

The thing about the Lakers deal is we've never gotten a good handle on what might or might not have been offered from the Lakers side. I think the closest thing we've seen from TJ (and others) is that the two sides were never all that close.

Yesterday, Trevor Lane, of the Lakers Nation podcast wondered whether the Lakers even offered any FRPs at all. There's a lot of Laker twitter that I've seen (not all, of course) that seemed to think the Jazz should have been happy enough just having Westbook as an expiring and being able to cut down the roster crunch. In other words, they weren't buying that the Lakers should give anything at all for taking on Westbrook. And since Bogey was not worth an UFP on his own (nor were any combination the Jazz could send in the deal, in their view), the Jazz should have just been happy with minimal draft compensation (such as a protected first or some seconds, maybe).

You could be right, but seems like the Lakers were willing to give up one pick. I think they wanted Vando in the deal though, and apparently we're not willing to put him in a deal. If he was really the sticking point to getting an unprotected pick and clearing out our roster, then I think we made the wrong choice, as much as I like Vando and am excited to see him play.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Funny how we all went from being so excited about Butler before the season last year to thinking there's a good chance he gets cut this year. Even the media was really high on him last year, I remember the press conference with Quin during pre-season when he snapped at the reporters and said that so far, they'd asked him twice as many questions about Butler as they had about Rudy and Donovan combined.

I still believe... Summer League was rough but dude was balling in pre-season last year. He will be an NBA player if healthy.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

One more thing on Bolmaro:

To me a Caruso type career would be a successful one for him. I think Caruso is a model he can legitimately strive for given the talent/tools he possesses (of course he's likely not to get there, but he's 22 so I'm willing to give him a year or two).

I actually think Lee has more Caruso in him than Bolmaro.

I'm not particularly hopeful with Bolmaro because if you can't shoot outside and you can't finish at the rim... you are basically unplayable unless the other stuff you do is phenomenal.

 

[idiot]

You could be right, but seems like the Lakers were willing to give up one pick. I think they wanted Vando in the deal though, and apparently we're not willing to put him in a deal. If he was really the sticking point to getting an unprotected pick and clearing out our roster, then I think we made the wrong choice, as much as I like Vando and am excited to see him play.

Maybe for Vando in the deal they were. But again, I think the best I've seen is speculation. If you know of anything more specific, I'll be glad to see it.

But at least some Laker advocates (since nobody really seems to know what the team itself was thinking), is that any Jazz deal should be/have been calculated completely by what the players returning to the Jazz were worth in a vacuum to the Lakers (with no consideration of Westbook at all). Once you go there in your mind, then the issue of whether even an UFP should be included really does become questionable.

 

[idiot]

I actually think Lee has more Caruso in him than Bolmaro.

I'm not particularly hopeful with Bolmaro because if you can't shoot outside and you can't finish at the rim... you are basically unplayable unless the other stuff you do is phenomenal.

Yeah; it's the offensive side of things that are the question for Bolmaro and that's why he's unlikely to replicate Caruso's career, even though Caruso certainly has had to work through some offensive limitations. It just seems the offensive learning curve will be much steeper for Bolmaro.

But I don't really see Caruso for Lee. Yes, Lee is good at defense too, by reputation. But he's 6-2 and known as kind of a ball-pounder on offense. He's not so much low usage in the way Caruso and Bolmaro are generally known to be; just low efficiency.

 

[homeytennis]

I thought the Pistons sent the Jazz money in the amount of Lee's salary so it can be used to pay anyone's salary.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I actually think Lee has more Caruso in him than Bolmaro.

I'm not particularly hopeful with Bolmaro because if you can't shoot outside and you can't finish at the rim... you are basically unplayable unless the other stuff you do is phenomenal.

Bolmaro should be able to score in certain situations, but probably only in those situations. He looks like Rubio in that regard. He can finish at the rim if the angle is easy enough.

It seems as though Butler, Lee and Bolmaro are all basically competing for a backup PG role.

 

[homeytennis]

If we use a roster spot on Zeller I will be furious. It would be so dumb given that you are supposed to be tanking and cut young players to have the most ordinary 3rd/4th center.

They signed him for a reason and I suspect it is to be a mentor for Kessler.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

It looks like Stanley Johnson's option was picked up at the end of June by the Lakers, so his contract actually is guaranteed for this season.

Depth appears to look like this:
Olynyk / Azubuike / Kessler / Zeller
Markkanen / Vanderbilt / Johnson-Gay
Fontecchio / Beasley / Agbaji
Conley / Clarkson / NAW-THT
Sexton / Bolmaro / Butler-Lee

I could see the Jazz waiving Gay, Lee and one more out of Johnson, Butler, NAW and Bolmaro.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Maybe for Vando in the deal they were. But again, I think the best I've seen is speculation. If you know of anything more specific, I'll be glad to see it.

But at least some Laker advocates (since nobody really seems to know what the team itself was thinking), is that any Jazz deal should be/have been calculated completely by what the players returning to the Jazz were worth in a vacuum to the Lakers (with no consideration of Westbook at all). Once you go there in your mind, then the issue of whether even an UFP should be included really does become questionable.

If the Lakers are thinking the same as these advocates, it's responsible for getting them stuck with Westbrook. The price will just go up once they start out bad and are desperate.

 

[idiot]

One (more) last thing on Bolmaro (maybe):

If the Jazz don't see him as a potential ball-handling guard (perhaps fitting along with more of a heavy-usage type such as Sexton or THT), they probably should not keep him. If they think the long-term play with him is at a SF, I agree that the likelihood of him ever developing into the type of off-ball threat that is needed to be an NBA SF is very slim. I was a little discouraged that they didn't use him much at PG in summer League (though they had other mouths to feed there and Bolmaro was a latecomer to the team with the trade, so maybe that explains why they just used him in a generic wing role mostly?).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

They signed him for a reason and I suspect it is to be a mentor for Kessler.

K but KO is also his mentor... is Kessler so ****** he needs two mentors... if so lets stop finding mentors and get a new mentee.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

One (more) last thing on Bolmaro (maybe):

If the Jazz don't see him as a potential ball-handling guard (perhaps fitting along with more of a heavy-usage type such as Sexton or THT), they probably should not keep him. If they think the long-term play with him is at a SF, I agree that the likelihood of him ever developing into the type of off-ball threat that is needed to be an NBA SF is very slim. I was a little discouraged that they didn't use him much at PG in summer League (though they had other mouths to feed there and Bolmaro was a latecomer to the team with the trade, so maybe that explains why they just used him in a generic wing role mostly?).

I generally agree. I think you either squint and try to pretend he's Ricky Rubio, or you move on. Right now, his greatest appeal may be as a point-of-attack defender. He is actually quite good defending the ball.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The thing about the Lakers deal is we've never gotten a good handle on what might or might not have been offered from the Lakers side. I think the closest thing we've seen from TJ (and others) is that the two sides were never all that close.

Yesterday, Trevor Lane, of the Lakers Nation podcast, wondered whether the Lakers even offered any FRPs at all. There's a lot of Laker twitter that I've seen (not all, of course) that seemed to think the Jazz should have been happy enough just having Westbook as an expiring and being able to cut down the roster crunch. In other words, they weren't buying that the Lakers should give anything at all for taking on Westbrook. And since Bogey was not worth an UFP on his own (nor were any combination the Jazz could send in the deal, in their view), the Jazz should have just been happy with minimal draft compensation (such as a protected first or some seconds, maybe).

And I could understand that if they were taking Gay, Conley with Bogey. But if they aren't taking back bad money and they aren't giving picks... then we can consolidate our own roster thank you.

I am guessing they wanted Bogey, Beasley, and JC for Westbrook and a pick... if the alternative is the deal we did... I would take that for sure.

 

[idiot]

They signed him for a reason and I suspect it is to be a mentor for Kessler.

They also signed him to a camp (non-guaranteed) deal and that was before anyone knew we'd end up with Olynyk.

 

[idiot]

And I could understand that if they were taking Gay, Conley with Bogey. But if they aren't taking back bad money and they aren't giving picks... then we can consolidate our own roster thank you.

I am guessing they wanted Bogey, Beasley, and JC for Westbrook and a pick... if the alternative is the deal we did... I would take that for sure.

I understand why you're guessing this. It's kind of the default deal (at least in terms of player content) that has been advocated here on JF (including by me). It was the best deal to try to keep their cap space clean for summer 2023. But again, it's all speculation at this point.

And from the Lakers side, you do have to at least ask the question of why they would want two guys who are best in a role as heat-it-up SGs off the bench in the same deal. And, just like us, they were overloaded at guard positions at this point of the negotiations. While much of that overload was at PG, I suspect that (if for no other reason than the sunk-cost issue) they were not wanting to totally put their "prize" rookie from a year ago and their "big" FA acquisition (Reaves and Walker) out of the rotation.

Who knows?

Until I hear anything more solid, I'm going to choose to believe that the Lakers were asking for something along the lines of Bogey, Vandy, Clarkson and Beasley for a first (maybe not even unprotected), Westbrook and Nunn. I know you disagree, but I'm happy enough that the Jazz didn't take that offer. If the Jazz have a vision for Vanderbilt that would take him out of this kind of a deal, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.