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Why are gun owners afraid to admit they own guns?

This right here is why so many gun owners oppose registration.

Because now it's also:

Registration w/license
Required classes
No open carry
"Extreme" punishment
Increased potential to lose a right

They see it as the road to the restriction, and possibly the removal, of a constitutional right.

For me personally I have long supported requiring a shooting test in order to get a CCW. I partially agree on your punishment remark (depends on each case) and I support open carry,

So, is this your typical slippery slope type of fallacious reasoning, or are these legitimate concerns? Until demonstrated otherwise, and understanding something of the fanaticism and unreasonablness of the 2nd Amendment devotees, I'll assume the former.
 
So, is this your typical slippery slope type of fallacious reasoning, or are these legitimate concerns? Until demonstrated otherwise, and understanding something of the fanaticism and unreasonablness of the 2nd Amendment devotees, I'll assume the former.

You can view that any way you want but it is the real POV of many gun owners. I think that it is a slope but due to the tons of court cases and constitution it's not that slippery.

I'm not worried about guns being taken away. It won't get to that point as proven, IMO, through American history and even if it did I think it would spark armed revolt. Civil war, I really do.

Personally, I am for "universal" background checks, linking mental health records to background checks which can potentially lead to a waiting period and a more extensive mental health screening (depending on the "illness"), requiring shooting for a CCW license and that license to be valid nation wide.
 
I think in a nation where gun rights are part of our founding documents we should be teaching gun safety and basic gun competency in high school.

So, you are for expanding school hours, raising teacher's pay, and hiring more teachers?
 
This right here is why so many gun owners oppose registration.

Because now it's also:

Registration w/license
Required classes
No open carry
"Extreme" punishment
Increased potential to lose a right

They see it as the road to the restriction, and possibly the removal, of a constitutional right.

For me personally I have long supported requiring a shooting test in order to get a CCW. I partially agree on your punishment remark (depends on each case) and I support open carry,

Eh. It's a gun. It's a very dangerous weapon/tool. Why would licensing them and requiring safety classes lead to taking away a constitutional right? That's illogical. That is fear mongering.

One path is intelligent and follows common sense. One path is unintelligent and follows fear.

I haven't seen a good reason for open carry. And "the holster makes me uncomfortable" isn't a good reason. Why would you need to carry a gun?
 
I am not oppossed to a registry and would probably suppport one, but I have no desire to take people's guns away from them. I think it's pretty well estabslished that the Constitution provides the right for citizens to possess and own firearms (although I do not think this includes ALL types of firearms). And, unlike many of the people on the right who say they love the Constitution--until it's not convenient to love it, I believe all, including this, Constitutional rights should be protected. I just don't see things such as registries, background checks, and such prudent measures to constitute an unreasonable burden on the exercise of those rights (although I'm not 100% certain of the registry, I can think of scenarios in which this might not be a good idea and am open to being swayed against it).

I agree with all this. You can lose your constitutional rights. You should have a right to a gun, when you are responsible enough for one. Take a class. Register your weapons. Re-take classes every three years. Done. If you commit a felony, you lose your right. If you stalk someone, you lose your right. If you commit a crime where you use violence, you lose your right.

How is that asking too much?
 
You can view that any way you want but it is the real POV of many gun owners. I think that it is a slope but due to the tons of court cases and constitution it's not that slippery.

I'm not worried about guns being taken away. It won't get to that point as proven, IMO, through American history and even if it did I think it would spark armed revolt. Civil war, I really do.

Personally, I am for "universal" background checks, linking mental health records to background checks which can potentially lead to a waiting period and a more extensive mental health screening (depending on the "illness"), requiring shooting for a CCW license and that license to be valid nation wide.

So, you agree that gun owner's fears are not founded in reality. That is the whole point of this thread.
 
I’ve never gotten this.


I don’t own a gun. I have owned guns before and I will probably own guns in the future. I have no cares if you own one or not. BUT, why do gun owners freak out when they are asked if they own a gun?


Aren’t their guns recorded when they buy them? Why the fear of admiting you are a gun owner? I don’t understand it.


Who is going to come and take away your guns? Why do you care if a Dr. asks if you own a gun?


Maybe I just don’t understand. can any of you, who own guns and don’t like to tell people about it, help me understand this phenomenon?


Enlighten me.

So, you agree that gun owner's fears are not founded in reality. That is the whole point of this thread.

So you do understand you just don't agree, great. What I was doing as explaining their hang ups. I can understand them just fine, even if I don't agree or think it's silly. Just like how I find your dismissal of their fears of governmental over reach (AKA gun confiscation)as "unintelligent" to be silly.

I've posted 2-3 times already where I stand.
 
So, you are for expanding school hours, raising teacher's pay, and hiring more teachers?

No

Absolutely yes, I would double a teachers pay. I would dramatically alter what is taught and how. No need to increase the hours IMO.
 
So, is this your typical slippery slope type of fallacious reasoning, or are these legitimate concerns? Until demonstrated otherwise, and understanding something of the fanaticism and unreasonablness of the 2nd Amendment devotees, I'll assume the former.

whats wrong with slipery slope argument!

trhoughout history everything was a slippery slope. u think hitler came in to power and immediately started throwing Jews in the oven?


no tyranny is not a instant thing. it always creeps slowly!
 
No

Absolutely yes, I would double a teachers pay. I would dramatically alter what is taught and how. No need to increase the hours IMO.

This. It has already been shown in many studies that homework does nothing to improve learning and can even hinder the learning process. Kids need time to be kids and brains need time to absorb what is learned. More time is absolutely not the answer. My daughter spent 8 hours drawing a map of Africa with all the countries and their capitals and some census and economic data for geography. It looked meticulous and was 100% correct. Know what grade she got? 70% because it wasn't colorful enough. Yes the teacher weighted coloring in the countries at 30 mother****ing percent of a ****ing high school geography assignment. Seriously what the ****? And realistically she learned more about the countries by us talking about it then by coloring our even drawing the map and filling it in. So more focus on quality teachers and quality curriculum and better pay, less focus on ******** and ripping away extra time.
 
I wouldn't think of it. Anyone who asks questions like this is outta reach to ordinary reality.

but here's what I heard on the street, sheer stupidity of course.

The question is why any doctor, or dentist, needs to know shsit like that. Don't you have enough to do as it is?

oh, it gets into the records right beside classifications of disabilities and stuff, for the convenience of managerial folks with jackboots, guns, and swat team gear, so all is needed is for some bureaucrat to decide that folks with dentures are doubtfully competent to aim a gun.... so here's your list of indentured citizens and today you go round up their weapons, for their own good of course.

generally speaking, the peon gunslingers know nothing about managerial methods and reasoning, so of course they don't care to fill out your forms either.

There is nothing wrong with asking the doctor why he's asking the question or stating that you're uncomfortable discussing this topic. Lashing out is very likely a kind of obvious answer. I'm sure most will take time to explain and discuss.

My first thought is that the appointment was about stress. When the discussion doesn't reveal what caused the stress and the doctor doesn't feel his client is holding back, this could be a way to explore general insecurity or sensitivity of the patient.
I'm not saying there's a connection between gun ownership and level of insecurity, but my common sense says it's likely that a correlation exists -> Having a gun to "defend your family" is a security buffer that gives you the feeling you're prepared for ppl threatening your personal space.
So if that was a connection without an obvious trigger, there's still plenty of methods that can help you alleviate stress on a limited level.
While the information is accessible, sometimes it can be good to hear it from a doctor. I'm just trying to give an example where it can give a doctor valuable information indirectly or it can serve as an ice breaker for a more honest conversation.

You answered your own question. Those that want a registry generally do want to take people's guns away from them. You would have no problem with the government using the gun registry to round up all the guns or maybe just "assault weapons". I bet you would vote for a politician that advocated for it.

You're being intellectually dishonest. Ultimately you would like to see guns banned. You see a registry as a step in the right direction. Other people disagree with you. They don't want guns banned. You call them crazy for thinking that your ultimate intentions are exactly what they are.

I feel like you're jumping to conclusions

I am serious. People say guns go off accidentally all the time. "Oh the safety was on when I pulled the trigger! Went off accidentally!" That's not an accident. That's being a dumbass. I'm pretty big on gun safety, so things like that matter to me. And I've seen a lot of ignorance when it comes to guns, including in this thread, so naw, I'm not going to assume somebody means something when I don't know if they do.

Even though I agree, that discussing statements for clarity's sake, my experience is that asking ppl to clarify their statements is more productive than confronting them with the assumption that they were meaning something specific. Especially when you don't know the ppl you're addressing well personally.

Guns are an indicator of abuse in home. That might be my favorite statement ever made on JF. So awesome.

Why would that be so surprising? Maybe there are evaluations that found a connection between the two? I wouldn't be surprised.

This. It has already been shown in many studies that homework does nothing to improve learning and can even hinder the learning process. Kids need time to be kids and brains need time to absorb what is learned. More time is absolutely not the answer. My daughter spent 8 hours drawing a map of Africa with all the countries and their capitals and some census and economic data for geography. It looked meticulous and was 100% correct. Know what grade she got? 70% because it wasn't colorful enough. Yes the teacher weighted coloring in the countries at 30 mother****ing percent of a ****ing high school geography assignment. Seriously what the ****? And realistically she learned more about the countries by us talking about it then by coloring our even drawing the map and filling it in. So more focus on quality teachers and quality curriculum and better pay, less focus on ******** and ripping away extra time.

I don't think no homework is necessarily a solution, but I agree that an overwhelming workload can be counterproductive for many kids development. A counterexample would be that Asian culturally anchored work ethics also lead to a significant amount of individual success.
Your example sounds like a lackluster performance by the teacher both in terms of preparation and grading. On the bright side, you spent a lot of hours with your daughter helping her prepare the homework and had a joint learning experience with her, where you could give her background intel about the African countries. While in your family this could be normal to spend time in such a setting together, it may be a special occasion in another family and help them strengthen the level of trust.

No idea what you are talking about. Most gun owners I know love to tell people about their guns. Post pics of their guns on facebook.
I don't think I know anyone who owns a gun who tries to hide that fact.

I have a couple myself though I never use them and wouldn't care if I no longer had them.

I think the facebook setting is different from a 1on1 doctor's appointment - scales are tilted in a different way. You have the computer as a buffer and usually your social connections/groups there will include other gun enthusiasts that can provide backup.
In Germany I think a similar point of contention is necessity of hunting as a sport/hobby or historical way of securing food/survival. There are multiple standpoints from biologists and other scientists, animal activists and of course hunters themselves. But a common reaction when one proudly presents a hunting trophy on social media and receives criticism from whoever is that they'll point out their knowledge about hunting and animal preservation and being upvoted into oblivion and backed up in comments from likeminded hunters, following it up with an offer to the accuser(s) to delete them from their facebook friendlists if they are offended by the display of hunting.
When being isolated in a doctor's appointment different defense mechanism can be triggered, while on the internet a "strength in numbers" counter attack authoritarian argument is the most common defense mechanism.
 
Eh. It's a gun. It's a very dangerous weapon/tool. Why would licensing them and requiring safety classes lead to taking away a constitutional right? That's illogical. That is fear mongering.

One path is intelligent and follows common sense. One path is unintelligent and follows fear.

I haven't seen a good reason for open carry. And "the holster makes me uncomfortable" isn't a good reason. Why would you need to carry a gun?

I've yet to see you give a reason for why we shouldn't open carry besides that you're scared of it. Come up with some reasons and we can discuss it.

Like I said earlier, we have states where you can open carry and there aren't any issues with it there.
 
whats wrong with slipery slope argument!

trhoughout history everything was a slippery slope. u think hitler came in to power and immediately started throwing Jews in the oven?


no tyranny is not a instant thing. it always creeps slowly!

Because slippery slope reasoning is a recognized logical fallacy, which leads to poor conclusions based on poor reasoning and unsound evidence, and in areas of important public policy, I'd prefer decisions to be made on good reasoning and sound evidence.

For example, arguing that implementing prudent regulations on gun owner registration and background checks inevitably leads to the eventual confistication of guns and/or suppression of gun ownership rights is classic slippery slope reasoning. It's unsound, lacks any evidence base, and is thus unsuitable as a basis for public policy decisions.
 
I've yet to see you give a reason for why we shouldn't open carry besides that you're scared of it. Come up with some reasons and we can discuss it.

Like I said earlier, we have states where you can open carry and there aren't any issues with it there.

I've seen ranchers/farmers open carry all the time. They walk around with a pistol and buck knife everywhere they go.
 
Because I can? Because I find concealed holsters uncomfortable? There are lots of reasons.

In Montana, it is legal to open carry. Guess what? We still don't have many idiots shooting each other, AND we're a bunch of drunkards! What a great state.

Open carry laws, presumably, have hidden effects beyond idiots shooting each other. For example, they can quite conceivably create a 'chilling' effect on public discourse (who wants to argue with a guy with a gun?), create threatening/intimidating situations (imagine being inpublic place by people with guns-what's their intention, do they mean harm, should I worry, etc.?), create uncertainty about security, and create a very real risk that non-violent or non-lethal disputes (even minor ones) turn violent and/or lethal.

I'm hard pressed to think of any public good that open carry laws generate, but it's easy to imagine plenty of public not-so-goods. The biggest payoff of open carry laws seems to be that guys/gals with a hard on for guns can publicly display their hard on, and intimidate the hell out of everyone else in the process (and thus make their hard on even harder in the process).
 
Open carry laws, presumably, have hidden effects beyond idiots shooting each other. For example, they can quite conceivably create a 'chilling' effect on public discourse (who wants to argue with a guy with a gun?), create threatening/intimidating situations (imagine being inpublic place by people with guns-what's their intention, do they mean harm, should I worry, etc.?), create uncertainty about security, and create a very real risk that non-violent or non-lethal disputes (even minor ones) turn violent and/or lethal.

I'm hard pressed to think of any public good that open carry laws generate, but it's easy to imagine plenty of public not-so-goods. The biggest payoff of open carry laws seems to be that guys/gals with a hard on for guns can publicly display their hard on, and intimidate the hell out of everyone else in the process (and thus make their hard on even harder in the process).
Good post.
 
Open carry laws, presumably, have hidden effects beyond idiots shooting each other. For example, they can quite conceivably create a 'chilling' effect on public discourse (who wants to argue with a guy with a gun?), create threatening/intimidating situations (imagine being inpublic place by people with guns-what's their intention, do they mean harm, should I worry, etc.?), create uncertainty about security, and create a very real risk that non-violent or non-lethal disputes (even minor ones) turn violent and/or lethal.

I'm hard pressed to think of any public good that open carry laws generate, but it's easy to imagine plenty of public not-so-goods. The biggest payoff of open carry laws seems to be that guys/gals with a hard on for guns can publicly display their hard on, and intimidate the hell out of everyone else in the process (and thus make their hard on even harder in the process).

Good post.

A lot of the scenarios you present can often be twisted to open carry being a good thing. For example a violent person would be less likely to attack at the sight of open carry.

I have no doubt that both sides of that happen. Personally if I carry it will be concealed. There is a measure of bravado that often goes with open carry and that would not be why I'd carry.
 
A lot of the scenarios you present can often be twisted to open carry being a good thing. For example a violent person would be less likely to attack at the sight of open carry.

I have no doubt that both sides of that happen. Personally if I carry it will be concealed. There is a measure of bravado that often goes with open carry and that would not be why I'd carry.
Ya, or the violent person could see someone carrying a gun and shoot that dude first. Or even if the violent person wasn't going to use a gun they could go after the person with the gun and try to get their gun to use for their violence.

Lots of stuff could happen I guess.
 
A lot of the scenarios you present can often be twisted to open carry being a good thing. For example a violent person would be less likely to attack at the sight of open carry.

I have no doubt that both sides of that happen. Personally if I carry it will be concealed. There is a measure of bravado that often goes with open carry and that would not be why I'd carry.

I consider the odds of open carry disuading violence to be far lower (the incidence of violent acts in public spaces is a very, very, very rare occurance in any case) that the odds that open carry creates an intimidating/threatening public environment, leads to violent/lethal outcomes where none need to have occured, or that it gives huge macho-man boners (and whatever the female equivalent is) to those carrying openly.
 
Open carry laws, presumably, have hidden effects beyond idiots shooting each other. For example, they can quite conceivably create a 'chilling' effect on public discourse (who wants to argue with a guy with a gun?), create threatening/intimidating situations (imagine being inpublic place by people with guns-what's their intention, do they mean harm, should I worry, etc.?), create uncertainty about security, and create a very real risk that non-violent or non-lethal disputes (even minor ones) turn violent and/or lethal.

I'm hard pressed to think of any public good that open carry laws generate, but it's easy to imagine plenty of public not-so-goods. The biggest payoff of open carry laws seems to be that guys/gals with a hard on for guns can publicly display their hard on, and intimidate the hell out of everyone else in the process (and thus make their hard on even harder in the process).

Perhaps if people had more of an understanding about guns, they wouldn't be so scared of them. I don't think anything of seeing somebody open carry, it's not a big deal. Most of the time, they forget they're even carrying, but it's nice to have when you need it. 20 years ago we were all driving around with rifles in a gun rack in our pickups. Somehow, nobody got shot.

But hey, keep on thinking people just wanna open carry to show off or be intimidating. Some of them? Sure, but they are the minority. Meanwhile, lets stick to the facts. Has it caused a problem anywhere? Can't say it has. Great assumption that some guy carrying is just gonna whip his gun out if somebody disagrees with him though. Talk about fear mongering.
 
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