WI Gubernatorial Recall

[Stoked]

I guess that's what makes you Americans different from the rest of the world. I am quite okay with forcing a few to suffer for the good of the many.

That is a differance I am more than willing to accept.

Edit: I know you did not mean it that way but that line of thinking has lead to generations of hurt.

 

[green]

If it was up to me, private schools would be illegal, along with home schooling. If you want private schools, we should just have a completely private school system and then you could all live with it.

I would love that. Have you seen how far our science and math skills have fallen? You are a teacher. Have you ever taken a calculus class? Teachers these days do not need any upper division math, science or english classes to become a teacher. That is ridiculous. That is what unions get you. Falling scores, under qualified teachers, and rising costs.

 

[green]

I guess that's what makes you Americans different from the rest of the world. I am quite okay with forcing a few to suffer for the good of the many.

No, you are okay with forcing others to suffer so you don't have to. That's the difference. You don't want to play by the rules everybody else has to play by.

 

[green]

Well, get a union, muffin. That's why they exist. To protect me from crap.

LOL. So you admit everything we have been saying is true. LOL.

*shakes head*

 

[Stoked]

Well, get a union, muffin. That's why they were created. To protect me from crap.

Fixed. Now they exist to force others to accept your crap.

 

[JimLes]

I firmly reject that notion that if I have a chance to better my childs future I should not take it because littel SUzies parents down the block did not get that chance. Even reverse that. If little Suzies parents came to me saying they were not taking the opportunity to better their childs future by sending her to a better school, because I didn't get the chance to do that for my daughters, I'd call them idiots to their faces.

Wait, so then if I have a chance to better my salary and my working conditions, I should not take it because it hurts you?

 

[JimLes]

I would love that. Have you seen how far our science and math skills have fallen? You are a teacher. Have you ever taken a calculus class? Teachers these days do not need any upper division math, science or english classes to become a teacher. That is ridiculous. That is what unions get you. Falling scores, under qualified teachers, and rising costs.

I don't live in the USofA, nor am I a teacher there.

And it's best we don't start discussing finer points of teaching, because you're not exactly competent to decide what is a qualified teacher.

 

[Stoked]

Wait, so then if I have a chance to better my salary and my working conditions, I should not take it because it hurts you?

Well that depends. How are you getting this opportunity? Are you forcing something on others? Requiring taxpayers to pay an unfair amount of any future pension or pay you get is not the same as more children having the opportunity to have a higher education.

Personally I think teachers should be held to a much higher standard. Higher requirements to be hired. As a result of that they should have much higher pay. Unions kill that by killing the requirments and increasing hte pay. So I am paying more for a worse product. No thanks.

 

[Stoked]

I don't live in the USofA, nor am I a teacher there.

And it's best we don't start discussing finer points of teaching, because you're not exactly competent to decide what is a qualified teacher.

And neither are the unions (not all, generally speaking) as they have shown.

 

[One Brow]

1. Teacher unions lobby against vouchers. That takes away my ability to potentially send my child to a better school.

It also takes away the ability of other parents to drain the school system of resources and the best students, leaving your kid behind with the ones who weren't accpeted by the private schools.

2. Teacher unions (unions in general) make it next to impossible to fire bad employees. In your teacher example that makes it more likely that my child gets a bad teacher.

Bad teachers get fired regularly. Also, most of the bad, experienced teachers are still better than people who have never taught. Teaching well requires years of experience.

3. Unions (and all unions) get involved in things outside "collective barganing". Such as politics.

Do you oppose associations of individuals being politically active?

4. Mandatory particiaption (not all unions). Why should I be forced to give money to people that do not necesarily represnt me. If I want to I can if I do not I should not be forced.

You want to ride free on the hard work and donations of the people who support a union. That's ceretainly understandable.

As for the way the general populace views teachers...well maybe, just maybe, there is a reason teachers are viewed that way. Your bullish, over aggresive unions.

You mean, becasue teachers were so well-respected before the unions?

 

[One Brow]

No they are not. Can they be fired? Yes but it is not "easy" .

How many schools systems have you worked for in an administrative capacity? As a teacher? Or, are you relying on media reports?

 

[One Brow]

Have you ever taken a pay cut because the board of directors is trying to impress the stock holders before a shareholders meeting? I have. Same crap. Cry me a river.

How many outside PACs contributed to that stockholder election?