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Woj: Don to the Cavs for Markkanen, Agbaji, Sexton, three unprotected 1sts, two swaps, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Saint Cy of JFC said:
It still wild to me anyone thinks the Knicks passing on Mitchell wasnt a smart move.

IT's a bad look because of how hyped up getting him was, but overpaying for Mitchell would have been a death blow for their franchise. Would have made them fun for a bit, but they did the right thing.
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Look this isn't about the right thing for the Knicks, it is about the right thing for the Jazz. In this regard, the Knicks screwed up and should have given us everything we wanted. They didn't, so they screwed the pooch and we moved on. Sucks to be them.
 
The Cavs coming back into the discussion had everything to do with this:

www.google.com

LeBron lands 2-year, $97.1M deal with Lakers

Lakers star LeBron James has agreed to a two-year, $97.1 million contract extension that includes a player option for the 2024-25 season, Klutch Sports CEO Rich Paul told ESPN.
www.google.com www.google.com

Once they knew that LBJ wasn't making a second return to Cleveland in the near future, they went all back in on the DM talks.

Mitchell was their Plan B. The Knicks were a casualty of the Cavs willingness to offer up that deal at that particular moment, but the Knicks also set up that moment by negotiating like total f****** douchebags.
 
Elizah Huge said:
They were worried about having enough assets for the second star but the problem is you have to secure the first star before you can do anything else.

Is it the end of the world? Of course not. They still have plenty of assets. Was it smart to have all of your young players in trade talks for two months and not trade any of them? Of course not. Let alone letting down your entire fan base.
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All the while, they block the ascension of the kids with dunce signings like Fournier and Randle. Do not tell me they have the courage to build right because they have never demonstrated that. The picks are still for the purpose of trading for stars, those with more pay more, and they biffed on an opportunity they spent three years preparing. At minimum, it is a terrible look and significant indicator of malfeasance.

Players want to go not just to talented teams, but teams that have demonstrated a minimum level of managerial competence.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
It still wild to me anyone thinks the Knicks passing on Mitchell wasnt a smart move.

IT's a bad look because of how hyped up getting him was, but overpaying for Mitchell would have been a death blow for their franchise. Would have made them fun for a bit, but they did the right thing.
Click to expand...
They didn't pass though... JZ and Ainge came off the top rope and blindsided them. It may end up being what is best for them, but their inconsistent summer shouldn't get praise for stumbling on the right path. They said they were going to be patient and build around the kids but none of their moves suggest the kids will get a larger role or more PT. They sold a lotto pick for some meh picks and the chance to sign Leon's godson.

I think we made a slight mistake not going back to them and saying "here is the offer we have... here is the offer we will accept to beat it... get everyone on the line now or the next time you hear about Donovan it will be from Woj". It sounds like Cavs would have let us do it.... maybe not. I think the Knicks may still have called the bluff but I wonder if they could rewind the last two weeks if they would go a different route.

They better be solid this year or Thibs and possibly Rose are getting shitcanned.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
They didn't pass though... JZ and Ainge came off the top rope and blindsided them. It may end up being what is best for them, but their inconsistent summer shouldn't get praise for stumbling on the right path. They said they were going to be patient and build around the kids but none of their moves suggest the kids will get a larger role or more PT. They sold a lotto pick for some meh picks and the chance to sign Leon's godson.

I think we made a slight mistake not going back to them and saying "here is the offer we have... here is the offer we will accept to beat it... get everyone on the line now or the next time you hear about Donovan it will be from Woj". It sounds like Cavs would have let us do it.... maybe not. I think the Knicks may still have called the bluff but I wonder if they could rewind the last two weeks if they would go a different route.

They better be solid this year or Thibs and possibly Rose are getting shitcanned.
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Why is it so hard to believe that maybe the signing of RJ and his new contract made the jazz way less interested in what the Knicks were offering. I do think there were some emotions involved though, even though the Jazz deny it. The Knicks have been ****ing with Don for a long time, the level of recruiting and tampering seems excessive, so I think the Jazz also saw a good opportunity to give them the bird and took it. Now Cam is disgruntled and I bet others are too, they had hopes of getting away from that ****** franchise.
 
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Mongoose said:
Why is it so hard to believe that maybe the signing of RJ and his new contract made the jazz way less interested in what the Knicks were offering. I do think there were some emotions involved though, even though the Jazz deny it. The Knicks have been ****ing with Don for a long time, the level of recruiting and tampering seems excessive, so I think the Jazz also saw a good opportunity to give them the bird and took it. Now Obi is disgruntled and I bet others are too, they had hopes of getting away from that ****** franchise.
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That is a solid contract for RJ.
 
Mongoose said:
Why is it so hard to believe that maybe the signing of RJ and his new contract made the jazz way less interested in what the Knicks were offering. I do think there were some emotions involved though, even though the Jazz deny it. The Knicks have been ****ing with Don for a long time, the level of recruiting and tampering seems excessive, so I think the Jazz also saw a good opportunity to give them the bird and took it. Now Cam is disgruntled and I bet others are too, they had hopes of getting away from that ****** franchise.
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They could do a deal without RJ... I doubt we were under the impression he'd take less to sign with us. Its a fair deal. I think it slightly increased his trade value for us.

I think they legitimately felt no one would match their B- offer so they never put up a B+ offer. I think they felt they had a little more time and would inch towards a B offer. Then Cavs came back and added Ochai to their offer and it was enough to say "eff it" and get it done so we can move to our other business.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
They didn't pass though... JZ and Ainge came off the top rope and blindsided them. It may end up being what is best for them, but their inconsistent summer shouldn't get praise for stumbling on the right path. They said they were going to be patient and build around the kids but none of their moves suggest the kids will get a larger role or more PT. They sold a lotto pick for some meh picks and the chance to sign Leon's godson.

I think we made a slight mistake not going back to them and saying "here is the offer we have... here is the offer we will accept to beat it... get everyone on the line now or the next time you hear about Donovan it will be from Woj". It sounds like Cavs would have let us do it.... maybe not. I think the Knicks may still have called the bluff but I wonder if they could rewind the last two weeks if they would go a different route.

They better be solid this year or Thibs and possibly Rose are getting shitcanned.
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I have to admit, I’m a little annoyed that we’re supposed to be believe that Ainge suddenly got a conscience about how he negotiates when it relates to the Cavs. I can’t shake the feeling that giving the Knicks a big **** you was a significant value to the decision, which is bad decision making.

If the Cavs let them off the call at all to deliberate, then yeah, giving the Knicks a sincere ‘take it or leave it on this call right now’ deal (and maybe even casually mention something about tampering either to cajole them past the finish line, keep them from leaking, or both) might be the smart way to go if getting the best package is of paramount importance.

I think they get 3 unprotected, 2 swaps, Grimes, Toppin, and Fournier in that deal. I can’t think about this possibility too much, it’ll drive me nuts for the next seven years, or maybe forever depending on how things play out. I am concerned we just got three picks in the 20’s, guys that hurt the tank, and no swaps in reality.
 
The Knicks had better picks to offer than the Cavs if they were willing to trade them, but the players they could offer were inferior/unproven.
 
default said:
The Knicks had better picks to offer than the Cavs if they were willing to trade them, but the players they could offer were inferior/unproven.
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RJ Barrett is also better (or at least more complete) than any of the Cavs players. If we’re talking without RJ, though, you’re right.
 
Zach Lowe mentioned this on his most recent pod and I’ve said it before. It is hilarious that Quentin Grimes is some kind of untouchable prospect.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
You were leading the RJ Barrett is great bandwagon just 10 days ago...
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RJ is better than any singular player we got. I laid out a Cleveland deal about a week before it happened and I thought they’d keep Lauri. I had close to the exact deal except Okoro/Windler instead of Lauri. Lauri + Sexton together is better than RJ alone.

I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
It still wild to me anyone thinks the Knicks passing on Mitchell wasnt a smart move.

IT's a bad look because of how hyped up getting him was, but overpaying for Mitchell would have been a death blow for their franchise. Would have made them fun for a bit, but they did the right thing.
Click to expand...
The other position is that the Knicks home grown talent is mediocre and that they might have missed a chance to cash that in for something of definite value. It is possible that RJ caps out at DFaves value and that Grimes looks like more like a prime Burkes when all is said and done. Back when the Jazz were rolling with the "Core 4" or whatever we probably wouldn't have dreamed about consolidating all of that into a single all star. It would absolutely have been the right move though.
 
framer said:
The other position is that the Knicks home grown talent is mediocre and that they might have missed a chance to cash that in for something of definite value. It is possible that RJ caps out at DFaves value and that Grimes looks like more like a prime Burkes when all is said and done. Back when the Jazz were rolling with the "Core 4" or whatever we probably wouldn't have dreamed about consolidating all of that into a single all star. It would absolutely have been the right move though.
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Ok, so if they are truly mediocre they have a chance at a nice pick in a loaded class, which is better than trading for Mitchell and putting him around a mediocre team and having no picks.

Plus they can just trade for Mitchell 2 years from now when the Cavs experiment proves disappointing and Mitchell's camp is still doing the monthly "he's leaving here" leaks.
 
default said:
Toppin meh
Quickley meh
Grimes - the jury is still out
McBride sucks
Barret is very good but I'm not sure he is better than a healthy Sexton, just more versatile due to size

Lauri is quality rotation player
I am at least as intrigued by Agbaji as I am of Grimes
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Agbaji is going to be a good rotation player. Good defender, has size, and has a great shot. I'm not sure he has a super high ceiling, but I also think absent injuries, you know he is going to be a quality NBA player. a 3&D type anyone would want on their team. If he can lock down his handle and learn to create, he could be great.
 
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