Woj: Don to the Cavs for Markkanen, Agbaji, Sexton, three unprotected 1sts, two swaps, and a partridge in a pear tree.
- Thread starter TheStormofWar
- Start date
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
There’s a word that fits you like a glove, that’s idiot.
SteakNEggs
Well-Known Member
And there's a reason why you can't make a counter argument. But I'm all ears, what does DM do better than CJ? Assist? No. Rebound? No. Shoot? No. Shoot 3's? No. Defend? Probably not.
Donovan is a little more efficient and has more use. He's slightly better.
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Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Has nothing to do with stats and everything to do with how you elevate your team.
SteakNEggs
Well-Known Member
Neither has been past the 2nd round. Don couldn't even elevate his team past Dallas missing Luka half the time. If he played better we win. It's not all on him but if we're talking elevation then he failed. Let's not even talk about getting an 8 second violation at the most crucial time that we had the game in control. Up 3-1 yet fails miserable to win a single game.
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Which is why we broke up the team- we KNOW he's capable of that elevation, we've all seen it, but for whatever reason, he isn't bringing it to the team as constituted. The reason he was worth the bag is that other teams saw those times when he did bring it, and think the new environment will be conducive to it. I think we all know that is possible, and that he probably wasn't going to be that guy for us, so time to trade him to one of the teams that think they can.
Everyone here is talking past each other- Don is CAPABLE of being better, by far, than those other players, he's gone supernova way beyond what they've shown- but so much of bringing out that level is based on intangibles like confidence, motivation, energy and working well with teammates. He isn't a guy like Jordan or Kobe that is so physically dominant and intrinsically talented that he's going to show that all the time in all scenarios- he's borderline great and needs all the cogs going right to cross that border.
CJ doesn't ever cross that border, unless he gets a tourist visa.
Technically, he is typing, so.....
This is exactly his problem, he picks and chooses when he turns it on or off and lets his emotions generate apathy on the court rather than aggression. He will struggle to ever lead a team far if he isn't able to sustain his effort on the court, and he is already kind of creating that as a pattern of behavior. I think he will go down as the guy that could blast 50 points in multiple playoff games, but that couldn't win a series when it was on the line.
Utah and OKC both own 15 firsts over the next 7 drafts. Ours are better quality than theirs are though. Ainge told Presti to hold his 7UP and he’s not close to being done yet either.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
You can stop typing too!! Lol
I can't stop typing, otherwise you would cry when you couldn't read the amazing things I write.
You're welcome!
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
For once in your life I can’t argue with you.
homeytennis
Well-Known Member
I noticed the Cavs are hosting seven players in a veteran's free agent camp. One of the players is a 6'10" big that played at Louisville and was BFF with DM.
Here's something that has been circling in my mind the last several days - how the Cavs were out and then suddenly swooped back in to steal Mitchell... Jazz and Knicks fans have been arguing about leverage and who got who in this trade for so long that I think we might be missing a real savy move by GM of the third side of this whole saga - Cavs's GM Koby Altman. Tell me if I'm reaching here...
So... here's the picture I want to paint - Cavs join negotiations just as Knicks and Jazz are supposedly getting closer on a deal. They give a good offer to the Jazz(but one that the Knicks can still beat) and the Jazz try to use it to bump up the offer by the Knicks. It doesn't work. Then Altman pulls out of negotiations and leaks it to NYK media(Ian Begley reported it which I thought was weird... how would he have info on what the Cavs are doing?). Now the Knicks are even more emboldenen and unwilling to budge because they know the most serious other contender for Mitchell is out... even set a deadline and after that deadline they remove the piece the Jazz wanted(RJ Barrett) off the table, which ticks the Jazz off. Now all of a sudden that Cavs offer looks even better and the Jazz are done playing games with the Knicks. Talks break down between the Knicks and the Jazz, and it's reported the two teams are now not talking. Cavs circle around and include Ochai Agbaji in their previous offer and that's enough to seal the deal. The Jazz don't even call the Knicks.
Do you think a version of events like this is possible? Did Koby Altman create an environment in which their offer would be accepted almost uncontested by other teams?
So... here's the picture I want to paint - Cavs join negotiations just as Knicks and Jazz are supposedly getting closer on a deal. They give a good offer to the Jazz(but one that the Knicks can still beat) and the Jazz try to use it to bump up the offer by the Knicks. It doesn't work. Then Altman pulls out of negotiations and leaks it to NYK media(Ian Begley reported it which I thought was weird... how would he have info on what the Cavs are doing?). Now the Knicks are even more emboldenen and unwilling to budge because they know the most serious other contender for Mitchell is out... even set a deadline and after that deadline they remove the piece the Jazz wanted(RJ Barrett) off the table, which ticks the Jazz off. Now all of a sudden that Cavs offer looks even better and the Jazz are done playing games with the Knicks. Talks break down between the Knicks and the Jazz, and it's reported the two teams are now not talking. Cavs circle around and include Ochai Agbaji in their previous offer and that's enough to seal the deal. The Jazz don't even call the Knicks.
Do you think a version of events like this is possible? Did Koby Altman create an environment in which their offer would be accepted almost uncontested by other teams?
SoberasHotRod
Well-Known Member
Altman would have had to know how both Rose and Ainge would act and at the risk of pushing them closer to a deal. I guess it's possible.
Is the deadline thing actually real or was it just NYK doing damage control because they knew it wasnt happening?
I don’t think it was some amazing chess move by Altman. I think Ainge/Altman got into discussions before the weekend and I’m guessing the Cavs didn’t put their best offer on the table because they knew it likely would just get used to beat the Knicks offer anyways. The Jazz like the premise of the offer but know the Knicks can give up more. They cut off negotiations and the Jazz get serious with the Knicks.
Jazz/Knicks get deep into negotiations as reported throughout the weekend and into Monday night. Rose digs his grave by giving Ainge an ultimatum then extending RJ. News leaks that they have stopped conversations completely.
Now, here is where I think it was actually an amazing chess move by Zanik/Ainge. They knew they had framework of the Cavs offer they liked in their back pocket. Without that they likely go back to the drawing board with the Knicks. Knowing they had this they were willing to be firm with the Knicks and hold their ground.
Jazz/Cavs circle back with each other and Zanik/Ainge assure Altman if he puts his absolute best offer on the table then the Jazz wouldn’t circle back to the Knicks to use that as leverage against them. Here is where Agbaji was added and likely a pick swap or two. Altman literally offered everything he had to offer. I am super curious when the negotiations with Sexton started regarding his contract. Without him agreeing to it the deal doesn’t happen.
It is really fascinating stuff. A lot of variables and moving parts.
TheStormofWar
Well-Known Member
Rose must live in his own headspace so much that he survives with zero oxygen.
View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10048112-windhorst-lakers-were-never-part-of-knicks-and-jazzs-donovan-mitchell-trade-talks
View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10048112-windhorst-lakers-were-never-part-of-knicks-and-jazzs-donovan-mitchell-trade-talks
It still wild to me anyone thinks the Knicks passing on Mitchell wasnt a smart move.
IT's a bad look because of how hyped up getting him was, but overpaying for Mitchell would have been a death blow for their franchise. Would have made them fun for a bit, but they did the right thing.
IT's a bad look because of how hyped up getting him was, but overpaying for Mitchell would have been a death blow for their franchise. Would have made them fun for a bit, but they did the right thing.
They were worried about having enough assets for the second star but the problem is you have to secure the first star before you can do anything else.
Is it the end of the world? Of course not. They still have plenty of assets. Was it smart to have all of your young players in trade talks for two months and not trade any of them? Of course not. Let alone letting down your entire fan base.