Yuck yuck yuck

[Gameface]

I have lived in Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Denver, Boston, Alberta Canada, and Utah. There are racists in Utah and there are racists that are conservative. There are also racists in every place I have lived and liberal racists. The narrative about Utah is popular, easy to pile on, and becoming less true all of the time - though it still does exist. Treating "Utahns" as a collective group is an interesting irony in this discussion.

As for Trump, he is an immature narcissistic bully but he treats everyone outside of his tiny circle that way without regard to race.

Flame away.

 

[fishonjazz]

You hate him cause CNN and MSNBC told you to. It's okay that you don't believe that is why but it is absolutely the truth.

I literally never watch CNN or MSNBC and I hate trump.
I hated trump long before he got into politics btw. He has been a douchebag for a long long time.
I would hate trump if he were a democrat too (he was a democrat prior to running on the republican platform btw) as he would still be a douchebag. Just a democratic douchebag instead of a republican douchebag.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[SteakNEggs]

There nobody to blame but the garbage humans that would stoop to such **** levels. A vast majority of us no matter the political affiliation are good damn people. Sadly there's just a bunch of idiots no matter the political affiliation that are ruining it for all of us.

 

[framer]

This seems like a dodge to absolve Mormonism.

It could be that "active" Mormons aren't the ones getting drunk and spewing racism in this particular case (though we don't know for sure, of course). But there's little doubt that the history of Mormon racist attitudes contributes to what many people (whether they're active Mormons, non-active Mormons, non-Mormons or whatnot) feel is acceptable racially within the state. There's decades of attitudes built up there. These change slowly, unfortunately (faster among some than others, of course). It's not something where a switch was just flipped within Mormonism and now the history of these racist feelings and attitudes don't matter anymore. That's not how culture works.

To my mind, and as LDS myself, Mormons should try to be at the forefront of anti-racist efforts in the state, since a significant (not the only, of course) element of Utah racism derives from the church's historical influence, an influence that helped lead people in Utah to think not only that racist attitudes are OK (or at least can be overlooked) but also that this racism is part of "who we are." So to me, it's our problem to a significant extent. We need to own it and do what we can to rid our local community of it.

Let's be honest, the only reason people care is because Utah= Mormon. Even the anti-Mormon portion of Utah likes to think that this behavior is linked to the Church. It would have nothing to do with them because they are enlightened

If this was happening in Indiana, people would blame alcohol mixed with ***holes and not the community.

 

[Rubashov]

man the knicks are ****

 

[idiot]

Let's be honest, the only reason people care is because Utah= Mormon. Even the anti-Mormon portion of Utah likes to think that this behavior is linked to the Church. It would have nothing to do with them because they are enlightened

If this was happening in Indiana, people would blame alcohol mixed with ***holes and not the community.

I agree to some extent with your second and third sentences. One's relationship (or lack of) with Mormonism shouldn't be seen as a dividing line to position oneself as "part of the solution" vs "part of the problem."

But at the same time, the role of Mormonism in the racism that does exist in the area's culture does need to be acknowledged and confronted (with the goal of improvement).

 

[framer]

I agree to some extent with your second and third sentences. One's relationship (or lack of) with Mormonism shouldn't be seen as a dividing line to position oneself as "part of the solution" vs "part of the problem."

But at the same time, the role of Mormonism in the racism that does exist in the area's culture does need to be acknowledged and confronted (with the goal of improvement).

But the anti-Mormon establishment hardly has the high ground when confronting hate and bigotry. One only needs to attend a BYU Utah game to demonstrate that. I imagine a week of reading the email Burgess Owens receives would be pretty enlightening as well. Most of the people on this board have been signaling that the "Utah issue" is almost entirely a Mormon issue. The demand for "reflection" almost never contains a desire for self reflection. These morons weren't Mormons, and hectoring the LDS community about their behavior gets old.

 

[idiot]

But the anti-Mormon establishment hardly has the high ground when confronting hate and bigotry. One only needs to attend a BYU Utah game to demonstrate that. I imagine a week of reading the email Burgess Owens receives would be pretty enlightening as well. Most of the people on this board have been signaling that the "Utah issue" is almost entirely a Mormon issue. The demand for "reflection" almost never contains a desire for self reflection. These morons weren't Mormons, and hectoring the LDS community about their behavior gets old.

I have no horse in the UoU/BYU rivalry. But I'll always say we should try to fix our own house first. I don't think anyone in in Utah should feel comfortable.

I'm LDS; I grew up in Utah. I'll start working on my anti-racism there.

 

[framer]

I have no horse in the UoU/BYU rivalry. But I'll always say we should try to fix our own house first. I don't think anyone in in Utah should feel comfortable.

I'm LDS; I grew up in Utah. I'll start working on my anti-racism there.

Kind of a funny thing. I served my mission in Oklahoma/Arkansas and had a 6'4 300 pound Tongan companion. He was straight off the island and still learning English. It was interesting to see the people there try to come to grips with him because they had likely never seen a Polynesian and didn't know how to process it. They were familiar with Native Americans, and he wasn't that. They knew he wasn't black. But because he was so big, we would often be greeted with guns at the door (which frankly wasn't all that uncommon there, especially in the country.) His first area was in Kansas, where he worked to get a drivers license and got one. So when people asked him, "Where are you from, son?" he would say "I from Kansas!" with a big grin and show him his license.

The lesson is that, in Utah, most people are familiar with Poly culture and Polynesians and wouldn't bat an eye over seeing a Polynesian at Walmart. Utah doesn't have a big black population, and probably never will, just for normal demographic reasons (the entire Intermountain West is the same.) Without personal exposure to black culture, it will be hard for people to become familiar enough with black culture to not make occasional mistakes or misunderstandings. That can't be fixed with classes, or hectoring, or twitter posts. It can only be fixed with more people in Utah having experience with black people, which will likely happen as Utah grows and diversifies its economy.

None of this excuses the flat out racists, who should be called out as they were that night. But if you try lumping in some 75 year old lady from Salina, Utah who has probably never met a black person into the same bucket as these morons because she doesn't share the opinion that racism is institutional isn't really helping. Most of the people demanding that we "understand" really aren't interested in that. They just want a club to beat their political enemies, and turn a blind eye to the racism (or recent antisemitism) in their own tribe.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

Beggars belief what ***** some ppl are

 

[Max Porter]

Let's be honest, the only reason people care is because Utah= Mormon. Even the anti-Mormon portion of Utah likes to think that this behavior is linked to the Church. It would have nothing to do with them because they are enlightened

If this was happening in Indiana, people would blame alcohol mixed with ***holes and not the community.

So I left the church and am definitely not Mormon. I’ve lived here all my life. I don’t think those racists or racist views have anything to do with Mormonism so I don’t know what you are talking about. You’re trying to criticize generalizations by generalizing.

 

[Max Porter]

Who said I was joking. Give a listen to Fitty's new music....then come back here and apologize.

Longish post, but explains it fully:

I said the people in the stands at The Garden these days ARE NOT the regular Knick fans. Once again, season ticket holders are staying away in droves due to the fact that the Knicks organization have told them they can not sit in their normal seats and they must be sectioned off into various sections (one covid shot, fully vaccinated, no shot...). The season ticket holders have mostly declined and that opened the doors to schmucks who rarely attend a Knick game.

Just look at the crowd -- it is mostly twenty-something guys who do not know the game or the team at all. For God's sake, they cheer Frank The Frenchman when he takes to the court! They cheer when a guy like Elfrid Payton shift is over. They chant the F-word at an opponent (and it is an opponent who has a total of just five games at The Garden! Think about how stupid those "fans" are. Knick fans never abused Michael or Kobe or even Reggie...but Trae Young? A guy who has a total of five Garden appearances they chant F you?) Once again, they are not the normal fan base. Little rich kids who had mommy and daddy buy them tickets..and do not know the game! It is disgusting. I noticed it throughout the season. My friends thought I was nuts when I would say something is very different with the Knick fans...like that movie INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS --"That's not my wife." My friends thought I was looney. Then it was finally explained that the season ticket holders - our fans - are not going due to covid fears and restrictions. I was right. Those in attendance are not the Knick fans who have been going for years and years!

Ask yourself, "Have Knick fans EVER behaved this way?" No. Yankee fans, Ranger fans, Mets, and Jets...yup. But never Knick fans. Steller rep.....until they allowed these young dopes who are clueless about the game and team.

Says the guy who is literally only on these posts to heckle. Behavior from those particular Knick fans AND behavior those particular jazz fans are BOTH unacceptable do you agree?

It’s really not that complicated - this isn’t about generalizing an entire city or base. You don’t live here there are good people here who are nothing like these individuals just as there are good people there. Calling out behavior is productive. Divisive BS meant to label an entire group is not. New Yorkers get labeled all the time as having zero manners and being aggressive. Is it true for some New Yorkers? Yes. All? Of course not.