Dear Fat People

[Deleted member 848]

Well, I suppose the problem I have is shaming a specific person (sacrificing them, emotionally) for the benefit of the group. I don't support the idea that a person owes their self to their society. So it isn't society's right to harm them for non-compliance to the social ideal.

Obesity is a significant problem in the U.S. but I think we've been driven down the wrong road by organizations such as The American Heart Association, who have pushed a low fat diet for decades and who has refused to back off that diet even though it is being proven to have little to no impact on heart health and obesity (and the rise in obesity in the U.S. has followed our adoption of the low fat diet). The unintended consequences of their low fat diet (which Americans have been following more than any of the countries that aren't experiencing an obesity epidemic) is that foods with less nutritional value are being consumed, specifically sugars are being used in place of fat. High sugar consumption is being shown to have many disastrous effects on our health, such as heart disease, obesity and diabetes.

I just can't get down with shaming as a solution to society's ills. I don't like to be cruel to people in that way.

SHaming is 100% not the solution to addressing obesity-- and we can do lots to reverse obesity rates w/o shaming a single person.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I didn't mean to infer that you were. I was just agreeing with the points you were making, and although I'm with GF on singling out people for shaming, I think MVP has the right idea. It's not OK to be obese. It is ruining people's lives and it can be fixed.

as long as our approach to fixing it is purely just telling people to work out, eat healthy, and to shame them if they're overweight, nothing will ever get fixed. I mean our current society is a perfect example of this.

 

[Gameface]

Aren't you one of those who argue against political correctness? Either way, many libertarian types do. And isn't this "emotional harm" argument what liberals use to defend political correctness? Being fat is not good for you. That is a fact. You're asking that people refrain from bringing up that fact in reference to any single person. Making a choice does not make you immune from criticism. And criticism can induce change in behavior. Considerations for cruelty are very important, but it is not a sufficient reason as criticism does not need to be cruel. And philosophical opposition on grounds of personal choice does not seem sufficient since we all possess that same choice.

I can understand how that assumption could be made in regard to my opinion of political correctness. I want to go on record that whenever PC is brought up the only thing I have to say about it is, what is the definition of political correctness? It seems like a pretty vague and subjective thing to me. I get what it is in a general sense but I have no specific idea what is and is not politically correct or where that line is drawn.

I value accuracy in communication. When I was a teenager I thought that's what political correctness was so I was in favor of political correctness. I learned that in many cases political correctness actually dictated being less accurate and less specific. I don't support that. I don't support speaking around what I'm trying to say. But the right wing battle cry against political correctness is something else. They're fighting windmills IMO. They aren't fighting for accuracy, they're fighting to be able to say what they want without criticism or consequences. I don't support that at all.

In my first post I said it was fine to state that she is overweight and also okay to discuss the change in her weight over time. But I as an individual have no desire to cause undue pain and suffering to other people. So, I try to consider my actions and not cause pain and suffering when it can be avoided without cost. But I'm perfectly willing to cause pain and suffering if it can't be avoided without cost to my other interests. People are not owed protection from pain and suffering caused by statements of fact and of course any person is free to state their opinion. I would never try to silence anyone. But a person who goes out of their way to make their negative opinion of another person's appearance known is a person I think less of because of it. So it's not something I would do intentionally.

 

[MVP]

You think her being fat will lead teenages to make the concious decision to become fat? Or you think by seeing how cruel we are to her it will make them think twice about eating that second jelly doughnut?

I think we underestimate how much influence celebrities and famous people can have on kids. Now she is fat and that sends a message to kids that, hey if Clarkson with her 30 mil net worth can remain fat, why would I bother to eat healthy and exercise or worry about my health? Would we shame somebody for smoking and doing drugs? Equally unhealthy life style choices IMHO.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I think we underestimate how much influence celebrities and famous people can have on kids. Now she is fat and that sends a message to kids that, hey if Clarkson with her 30 mil net worth can remain fat, why would I bother to eat healthy and exercise or worry about my health? Would we shame somebody for smoking and doing drugs? Equally unhealthy life style choices IMHO.

How many millions of Americans make unhealthy lifestyle choices because of their lack of access to healthy lifestyle choices? This is much more problematic than some kid ****ing seeing Kelly Clarkson (which teenagers of today gave two ****s about this woman anyways) and justifying to themselves that being fat isn't stopping her from acclaiming fame.

 

[MVP]

How many millions of Americans make unhealthy lifestyle choices because of their lack of access to healthy lifestyle choices?.

That as well was part of the point. She has every single mean available to her, so basically no excuses.
As much as we hate to admit but obesity associates with laziness in subconscious. There was study done and it was found that employers will less likely hire obese candidates no mater how much more impressive their resumes are compared to fit people.

 

[Deleted member 848]

That as well was part of the point. She has every single mean available to her, so basically no excuses.
As much as we hate to admit but obesity associates with laziness in subconscious. There was study done and it was found that employers will less likely hire obese candidates no mater how much more impressive their resumes are compared to fit people.

You're thinking too small scale-- there's lazy people all over the world. So, why is it that only recently have lazy people started getting fat? And why is this phenomenon so varied from country to country? Are America's 'lazy' lazier than Italy's "lazy"?


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[MVP]

Ok so maybe shaming is not the answer. But I hate when people trying to sell obesity as beautiful just because person feels that way. I hate messages to teenagers telling them that don't worry about your weight - you are beautiful the way you are. That is plain wrong in my opinion.

 

[Gameface]

Ok so maybe shaming is not the answer. But I hate when people trying to sell obesity as beautiful just because person feels that way. I hate messages to teenagers telling them that don't worry about your weight - you are beautiful the way you are. That is plain wrong in my opinion.

Okay, that's fine, but we trade our health for various pursuits of pleasure. Not all of them make us fat. Seems like either you're being a Nazi about it (as in we all have a responsibility to strive for master race perfection) or else you just hate fat people for being ugly.

Yeah, being overweight is generally unhealthy. There are a lot of ways to be an unhealthy person with or without being overweight. Seems like you have a special dislike for fat people, and it really has nothing to do with their health.

 

[MVP]

You're thinking too small scale-- there's lazy people all over the world. So, why is it that only recently have lazy people started getting fat? And why is this phenomenon so varied from country to country? Are America's 'lazy' lazier than Italy's "lazy"?


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Good question. I wonder if anybody ever compared drive through numbers in N.America and other countries. Simple example - last week I stopped by Tim Hortons to get coffee - about 10 cars idling in drive through wasting gas and time, polluting environment and being to lazy to move a muscle. I came inside, not a single person. Got my coffee, chatted with nice girl and went back to my car. I made few more extra steps than those 10 people waiting in drive through - small thing but it adds up during the day when it comes to burning calories. Now granted maybe some of them had their reasons, maybe there was a handicapped person or somebody with sprained ankle, but you get my point.

 

[TroutBum]

Ok so maybe shaming is not the answer. But I hate when people trying to sell obesity as beautiful just because person feels that way. I hate messages to teenagers telling them that don't worry about your weight - you are beautiful the way you are. That is plain wrong in my opinion.

Agreed.

I have zero answer for how to tackle the issue, although I wish I did. It is a major battle on both sides of my family.

 

[MVP]

Seems like either you're being a Nazi about it (as in we all have a responsibility to strive for master race perfection) or else you just hate fat people for being ugly.

Interesting point. I do not like word Nazi though, how about being Spartan about it?

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

SHaming is 100% not the solution to addressing obesity-- and we can do lots to reverse obesity rates w/o shaming a single person.

Agreed. And it should not escape notice that fat shaming disproportionately targets women. Society has created certain expectations about the 'ideal woman,' which are very unrealistic, but to which women, nonetheless, are held accountable. Nowhere is this seen more than in Hollywood. If you're a woman and overweight, the roles are few and far between and forget about ever being considered for a romantic lead. Yet overweight men seem to have little problem getting roles or romantic lead roles, for example, John Travolta, Jack Nicholson, Kevin James, etc. (often with women significantly younger than them--Hollywood is also biased against older women, but that's another subject). There are exceptions, if you want an older frumpy woman, Kathy Bates the go to woman; if you want an overweight but manic younger woman, then the choice is what's her name McCarthy.

All that said, the extent of obesity in this country is a very serious problem that needs to be addressed, and this means talking about why obesity is a problem. You can do it without shaming someone directly, but if someone who's truly fat (and not the common middle aged spread nearly all of us experience) feels shame at such messages, than that's a them problem.

Personally, I find obese women incredibly unattractive. I don't blame women if they feel the same way about obese men. At the same time, I'm not Charles Atlas, although I do watch what I eat and exercise regularly, so I feel like I have realistic expectations. If women or men chose to be obese, or allow it to happen, or don't do anything about it, or live a lifestyle that promotes it, then they can't expect everyone to find them attractive or desirable. Nor does it mean, however, that we have to be mean spirited about it. Feel free to get grossed out, but best to do it quietly.

 

[TroutBum]

What happens when your wife puts on 100 lbs after ten years of marriage? Cool to just be silent and grossed out?

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

You're thinking too small scale-- there's lazy people all over the world. So, why is it that only recently have lazy people started getting fat? And why is this phenomenon so varied from country to country? Are America's 'lazy' lazier than Italy's "lazy"?


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I would guess it has something to do with income, availability to food, availability to different types of food, lifestyle, higher prevalence of sedentary work (non-physical) work, etc.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Ok so maybe shaming is not the answer. But I hate when people trying to sell obesity as beautiful just because person feels that way. I hate messages to teenagers telling them that don't worry about your weight - you are beautiful the way you are. That is plain wrong in my opinion.

You're wrong-- there is a difference between diagnosable obesity, and our society's fantasizing over women maintaining a slim figure that we've constructed as one that represents good health.

Good question. I wonder if anybody ever compared drive through numbers in N.America and other countries. Simple example - last week I stopped by Tim Hortons to get coffee - about 10 cars idling in drive through wasting gas and time, polluting environment and being to lazy to move a muscle. I came inside, not a single person. Got my coffee, chatted with nice girl and went back to my car. I made few more extra steps than those 10 people waiting in drive through - small thing but it adds up during the day when it comes to burning calories. Now granted maybe some of them had their reasons, maybe there was a handicapped person or somebody with sprained ankle, but you get my point.

Cool anecdote, but it doesn't answer my question. Are the lazys in Germany less lazy than the ones in America? If not, why are there more obese Americans than any other nation?

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

What happens when your wife puts on 100 lbs after ten years of marriage? Cool to just be silent and grossed out?

Or if the husband puts on 100 lbs after 10 years of marriage?

I guarantee you that this is a pretty significant issue in many marriages.

Reminds me of an old BYU coed joke: "Did you hear about the new BYU marriage doll? Put a ring on her finger and she gets fat.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I would guess it has something to do with income, availability to food, availability to different types of food, lifestyle, higher prevalence of sedentary work (non-physical) work, etc.

So it's essentially 100% societal variables. The government can do a loooooot to address exploding obesity rates.

Mandating supermarkets being opened in every inner-city community alone would be a great first step. Halting subsidies to corn, and shifting them to fresh produce would be another.

 

[TroutBum]

Or if the husband puts on 100 lbs after 10 years of marriage?

I guarantee you that this is a pretty significant issue in many marriages.

Reminds me of an old BYU coed joke: "Did you hear about the new BYU marriage doll? Put a ring on her finger and she gets fat.

I love the old "answer the question with a question" bit, really I do, but please answer the question.

 

[TroutBum]

Cool anecdote, but it doesn't answer my question. Are the lazys in Germany less lazy than the ones in America? If not, why are there more obese Americans than any other nation?

American population: 319 Million.

Germany population: 80.6 Million.

Just a guess though.