Sorry gun advocates, you'll just have to suck it up

[Deleted member 848]

BTW, while I'm providing statistics that show the problem with violence (and gun violence) in the US, I'm skeptical that gun control will make a fundamental difference. Like I, and others, pointed out, the US leads the worlds in most kinds of murders, not just gun violence. Since guns are the easiest way to kill someone, banning guns might reduce the rate a bit, but it won't solve any underlying problem. Also, the evidence that liberals tend to cite in support of gun control is sketch. For example, Australia banned guns in the mid 90s (often cited example), and experienced a drop in gun violence. But they had MINUSCULE rate of gun violence even when guns were readily available!

I don't know, man. The US has a deeper problem, and gun control is a bandaid solution.

I sincerely agree, when in the context of homicides. However, I don't see how gun control wouldnt reduce the rate of mass-murders, seeing almost every single one is done with firearms. Status-quo isn't a solution. US needs to acknowledge it's evangelical fanaticism with firearms, and move towards addressing systemic factors that lead to its ballooned crime and homicide rates.

 

[franklin]

Suicides are never included in homicide rates. About half of the homicides are gang-related. And innocents protecting themselves against others contributes very very little. Fewer than 300 out of the 11000.

https://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf

*299. Thanks Zimmerman.

 

[Deleted member 848]

*299. Thanks Zimmerman.

you sure showed him!

 

[Stoked]

I sincerely agree, when in the context of homicides. However, I don't see how gun control wouldnt reduce the rate of mass-murders, seeing almost every single one is done with firearms. Status-qu o isn't a solution. US needs to acknowledge it's evangelical fanaticism with firearms, and move towards addressing systemic factors that lead to its ballooned crime and homicide rates.

So let us say that future firearms are restricted, particularly "assault rifles". Fine whatever.

What happens now? How do we fight the 300+ million firearms already owned? or the fact that, if Siro is right, that half the deaths are gang related. They already have their guns...

What solutions for those problems can be done because we restricted future sales of weapons...

 

[Deleted member 848]

So let us say that future firearms are restricted, particularly "assault rifles". Fine whatever.

What happens now? How do we fight the 300+ million firearms already owned? or the fact that, if Siro is right, that half the deaths are gang related. They already have their guns...

What solutions for those problems can be done because we restricted future sales of weapons...

Ask all people to turn in outlawed guns, whether gang-involved or not. Extend regulations on the rest of purchasable firearms. Fines and sentences to those who don't oblige, and are proven to maintain ownership over then. I don't really care for your "America will launch a civil war" argument, really-- if America needs to launch in a civil war, then so be it. I posted an article earlier in this thread that talked about how America didn't always have his widespread fanaticism with firearms, and that the meaning of the 2nd amendment has not always been interpreted in the same way. America has led the entire world in so many regards since its conception, and this homicide and crime problem simply cannot be ignored. America has changed, and it will continue to change. Complacency is the demon of every civilization.

 

[franklin]

Look at the World Bank link I gave on the first page. The problem is not that the US has no one to compare to, it is WHO they compare to. Nobody in the developed world has a comparable rate of homicide. Countries that compare to the US rate of homicides are Afghanistan, Ghana, and India. Not exactly the most flattering comparisons. Some Latin American and African countries have a much higher homicide rate.

Keep in mind that the US has a violence problem across the board- not just a gun problem. Although guns are readily available, the US proudly leads the developed world in knife murders (with over 2000 a year)!

Compare small states like Utah to small countries of Europe. The problem isn't guns, or some America hating resentment that Dalamon and Cockroach promote ad nauseum (why does Dalamon even care what Americans do with their own lives? Liberal's need to control others).

It's cultural issues but liberals never want to address that because it wouldn't suit there agenda. That's why they are avoiding all rational discourse in this thread and push shock statistics instead. Shock journalism is the only thing liberals have going for them, but as always, rationality will win out the day as it has with gun rights.

 

[franklin]

So let us say that future firearms are restricted, particularly "assault rifles". Fine whatever.

What happens now? How do we fight the 300+ million firearms already owned? or the fact that, if Siro is right, that half the deaths are gang related. They already have their guns...

What solutions for those problems can be done because we restricted future sales of weapons...

What we should be doing is addressing the gang problem. Again, that doesn't fit an agenda so let's focus on guns. Cuz gangs won't kill without guns.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Compare small states like Utah to small countries of Europe. The problem isn't guns, or some America hating resentment that Dalamon and Cockroach promote ad nauseum (why does Dalamon even care what Americans do with their own lives? Liberal's need to control others).

It's cultural issues but liberals never want to address that because it wouldn't suit there agenda. That's why they are avoiding all rational discourse in this thread and push shock statistics instead. Shock journalism is the only thing liberals have going for them, but as always, rationality will win out the day as it has with gun rights.

point the "cultural" issues that are leading to gun violence. I'm curious.

What we should be doing is addressing the gang problem. Again, that doesn't fit an agenda so let's focus on guns. Cuz gangs won't kill without guns.

"Gang problem" is a buzzword-- what specific aspect of the gang problem are you trying to address? What are you proposing?

 

[Revolution 9]

Compare small states like Utah to small countries of Europe. The problem isn't guns, or some America hating resentment that Dalamon and Cockroach promote ad nauseum (why does Dalamon even care what Americans do with their own lives? Liberal's need to control others).

It's cultural issues but liberals never want to address that because it wouldn't suit there agenda. That's why they are avoiding all rational discourse in this thread and push shock statistics instead. Shock journalism is the only thing liberals have going for them, but as always, rationality will win out the day as it has with gun rights.

Yes, lets compare small states which have less crime in general to European nations. You are twisting the argument to meet your agenda.

 

[Siro]

Compare small states like Utah to small countries of Europe. The problem isn't guns, or some America hating resentment that Dalamon and Cockroach promote ad nauseum (why does Dalamon even care what Americans do with their own lives? Liberal's need to control others).

It's cultural issues but liberals never want to address that because it wouldn't suit there agenda. That's why they are avoiding all rational discourse in this thread and push shock statistics instead. Shock journalism is the only thing liberals have going for them, but as always, rationality will win out the day as it has with gun rights.

I don't disagree that gun aren't the cause of the problem, but I don't understand what your example is supposed to illustrate. Most European countries are vast (population wise) compared to Utah, and Europe as a whole has a lot more people than the US, and a lot less crime.

But for those interested:

https://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state

Utah's rate is at 1.7 per 100k right now, which is on par with an above average European country.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Yes, lets compare small states which have less crime in general to European nations. You are twisting the argument to meet your agenda.

right, because small states like Utah have the same populations of developed nations like Japan and Germany.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I don't disagree that gun aren't the cause of the problem, but I don't understand what your example is supposed to illustrate. Most European countries are vast (population wise) compared to Utah, and Europe as a whole has a lot more people than the US, and a lot less crime.

But for those interested:

https://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state

Utah's rate is at 1.7 per 100k right now, which is on par with an above average European country.

he won't listen to you-- you're just an alt of mine, remember?

 

[Gameface]

it's hard not to laugh when looking at the rebuttals in this thread tbh. Pretty offensive to see such a strong case of overconfidence.

I came into this thread to make a pro-gun control argument.

I'd be much more inclined to put you on ignore than Dutchracist.

If I had to rank the top five posters who make threads unreadable I'd have to think for a second who 2-5 would be because by far you have destroyed more threads than any other poster in Jazzfanz history. Oh wait, I know who no.2 would be, but UGLI doesn't post here very much anymore.

Anyway, have fun with your circle-jerk.

 

[Hotdog]

Doesn't HighlandHomie interject some kind of race problem when someone gets shot? Why not this time?

Oh wait a black guy shot white people. It's the guns fault now because there is no such thing as racist black people or black people playing the victim race card, or just plain bad black people

Guy loses job, must be because he's black. He shoots and kills people. It's the guns fault.


Damn white people and guns. If you would all just disappear everything would be so much better.

 

[fishonjazz]

Since guns are the easiest way to kill someone, banning guns might reduce the rate a bit,

Might reduce it?
I guarantee it would reduce it. Not sure how much but if you take away the most effective way of killing someone then it's a guarantee that killing would decrease.

But I hate how populated the country is so I say make guns easier to get

 

[Revolution 9]

right, because small states like Utah have the same populations of developed nations like Japan and Germany.

In Bavaria we have a higher number of guns that most parts of Germany. The violence is still less IMO due to the culture here, and the training and work you must
do to own a gun.

 

[fishonjazz]

So let us say that future firearms are restricted, particularly "assault rifles". Fine whatever.

What happens now? How do we fight the 300+ million firearms already owned? or the fact that, if Siro is right, that half the deaths are gang related. They already have their guns...

What solutions for those problems can be done because we restricted future sales of weapons...

In the short term it wouldn't do any good.
In the long term though I think eventually you would see a decrease in homicides as little by little there would be less and less total guns

 

[fishonjazz]

What we should be doing is addressing the gang problem. Again, that doesn't fit an agenda so let's focus on guns. Cuz gangs won't kill AS MUCH without guns.

Fixed

 

[HighlandHomie]

Doesn't HighlandHomie interject some kind of race problem when someone gets shot? Why not this time?

Oh wait a black guy shot white people. It's the guns fault now because there is no such thing as racist black people or black people playing the victim race card, or just plain bad black people

Guy loses job, must be because he's black. He shoots and kills people. It's the guns fault.


Damn white people and guns. If you would all just disappear everything would be so much better.

No, I've never done that. It's funny seeing the racists reveal themselves in this thread because they're making it about their problems with me.

 

[HighlandHomie]

Doesn't HighlandHomie interject some kind of race problem when someone gets shot? Why not this time?

Oh wait a black guy shot white people. It's the guns fault now because there is no such thing as racist black people or black people playing the victim race card, or just plain bad black people

Guy loses job, must be because he's black. He shoots and kills people. It's the guns fault.


Damn white people and guns. If you would all just disappear everything would be so much better.

Furthermore, this thread was started about a national discourse being needed about gun violence/gun control laws. Threads in which I've gotten some of the racists upset were about cops killing unarmed people - which is not the same topic as gun control. Keep going though, you're doing a great job revealing yourself.