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My faith in Exum has been broken

As someone who has seem Exum play since his HS/U17 FIBA days, this is by far the worst I've seen Exum in terms of confidence on the floor. He's got zero confidence in his ability right now, compared to before he got in the Snyder doghouse for not playing his accustomed defense where he might have been a bit overconfident in his game. That's the sort of confidence that Exum needs to have in order for him to take strides forward in his development offensively, however I completely understand why Snyder would be upset with Exum relying on his athleticism to recover on defensive lapses too often and trying to play outside of his established role when the Jazz are in win now mode with a franchise defining offseason coming up. I don't understand why Snyder would throw him under the media bus though without positively reinforcing the improvement to Dante's aggressiveness and shot selection around the rim. I think a few users alluded to this on this board when it happened.

It's a real shame that Exum's ACL injury happened when it did, as he just got through an 82 game season without missing a game, and helped the team play like a 50 win team post all star break along with Gobert's insertion into the lineup. The stakes weren't as high last season, as a playoff berth would have been more than enough to satisfy the majority of the Jazz fanbase, and Exum would have been able to carry over the confidence he gained from summer league and hopefull from FIBA as well to show those flashes of his game more often throughout a season where he would have the freedom to make mistakes. Even if the Jazz pull the Mack trade off with Exum/Burke/Neto all on the roster, he still would have seen significant minutes and would have had the most freedom out of all of those guys to make mistakes because the Jazz would be more invested in player development rather than trying to get the highest seed possible. If the Jazz made it to the playoffs it would've been a natural evolution of the development of guys like Gobert, Hood, Lyles, etc along with Exum.

Instead he gets laid off of basketball for a year, which was probably the worst thing that could have happened to him in terms of player development, and he's now returned to a high stakes Jazz team where missing the playoffs will be considered a failed season, has two proven veterans in Hill and Mack who are ahead of him in the rotation, and constantly has the pressure of being benched for any poor play in the back of his mind as he's trying to figure out how to be aggressive while also doing what Snyder needs him to do for the sake of the team. Watching him sit with hands in head after getting benched any time he makes a turnover or misses a defensive assignment for a couple of possessions in a row is obviously taking a toll on his confidence.

The good news is that Exum is a hard working kid who is incredibly talented, and is more skilled than some of you are giving him credit for. All it will take is a couple of games where he comes and plays effectively in limited minutes to give him a bit of confidence going forward. It's currently happening with Stanley Johnson in Detroit in a similar situation. Got thrown into SVG's doghouse a few weeks ago and saw a few DNPs, and lately he's been playing effectively within his role and was big for the Pistons today against the Warriors, and he saw a lot of 4th quarter minutes because of his great play. Exum could easily do the same thing, he just needs that breakthrough game where he does everything that's asked of him while playing in his role while also making a couple of extra plays on the offensive end. He has that fire and competitive spirit to build from that if it happens - he's 100% a confidence player. It's not a coincidence that Exum played a lot better when he started in his rookie year instead of coming off the bench.

I think if Snyder is set on not playing Exum when Hill returns, then a stint in the D league with the freedom for Exum to do whatever he wants will be a good short term solution. I also think the Jazz will want to hold on to him for next season, as the uncertainty of the Jazz' future going into the offseason would be enough for the Jazz to keep Exum as a failsafe incase they lose both Hill and Mack in the offseason (and in a more indirect matter, potentially losing Hayward and Favors as well). If the Jazz have a successful season, retain their core guys, and Exum struggles throughout the rest of the season, then I could see the Jazz moving him for a proven backup PG or big.

tl;dr - Exum is a confidence player with no confidence, needs to either have a bit of freedom to play and make mistakes (D League stint), or string together a couple of solid games in his role while making a couple of extra plays to get his confidence back and return to making strides in his development. Bit of speculation about whether or not the Jazz would trade him at the end.

Thanks to anyone who read the wall of text, I'm a huge fan of Exum and it hurts to see him playing this poorly and watch him have zero confidence. I want him to be great for the Jazz too.
 
Sandman822 said:
As someone who has seem Exum play since his HS/U17 FIBA days, this is by far the worst I've seen Exum in terms of confidence on the floor. He's got zero confidence in his ability right now, compared to before he got in the Snyder doghouse for not playing his accustomed defense where he might have been a bit overconfident in his game. That's the sort of confidence that Exum needs to have in order for him to take strides forward in his development offensively, however I completely understand why Snyder would be upset with Exum relying on his athleticism to recover on defensive lapses too often and trying to play outside of his established role when the Jazz are in win now mode with a franchise defining offseason coming up. I don't understand why Snyder would throw him under the media bus though without positively reinforcing the improvement to Dante's aggressiveness and shot selection around the rim. I think a few users alluded to this on this board when it happened.

It's a real shame that Exum's ACL injury happened when it did, as he just got through an 82 game season without missing a game, and helped the team play like a 50 win team post all star break along with Gobert's insertion into the lineup. The stakes weren't as high last season, as a playoff berth would have been more than enough to satisfy the majority of the Jazz fanbase, and Exum would have been able to carry over the confidence he gained from summer league and hopefull from FIBA as well to show those flashes of his game more often throughout a season where he would have the freedom to make mistakes. Even if the Jazz pull the Mack trade off with Exum/Burke/Neto all on the roster, he still would have seen significant minutes and would have had the most freedom out of all of those guys to make mistakes because the Jazz would be more invested in player development rather than trying to get the highest seed possible. If the Jazz made it to the playoffs it would've been a natural evolution of the development of guys like Gobert, Hood, Lyles, etc along with Exum.

Instead he gets laid off of basketball for a year, which was probably the worst thing that could have happened to him in terms of player development, and he's now returned to a high stakes Jazz team where missing the playoffs will be considered a failed season, has two proven veterans in Hill and Mack who are ahead of him in the rotation, and constantly has the pressure of being benched for any poor play in the back of his mind as he's trying to figure out how to be aggressive while also doing what Snyder needs him to do for the sake of the team. Watching him sit with hands in head after getting benched any time he makes a turnover or misses a defensive assignment for a couple of possessions in a row is obviously taking a toll on his confidence.

The good news is that Exum is a hard working kid who is incredibly talented, and is more skilled than some of you are giving him credit for. All it will take is a couple of games where he comes and plays effectively in limited minutes to give him a bit of confidence going forward. It's currently happening with Stanley Johnson in Detroit in a similar situation. Got thrown into SVG's doghouse a few weeks ago and saw a few DNPs, and lately he's been playing effectively within his role and was big for the Pistons today against the Warriors, and he saw a lot of 4th quarter minutes because of his great play. Exum could easily do the same thing, he just needs that breakthrough game where he does everything that's asked of him while playing in his role while also making a couple of extra plays on the offensive end. He has that fire and competitive spirit to build from that if it happens - he's 100% a confidence player. It's not a coincidence that Exum played a lot better when he started in his rookie year instead of coming off the bench.

I think if Snyder is set on not playing Exum when Hill returns, then a stint in the D league with the freedom for Exum to do whatever he wants will be a good short term solution. I also think the Jazz will want to hold on to him for next season, as the uncertainty of the Jazz' future going into the offseason would be enough for the Jazz to keep Exum as a failsafe incase they lose both Hill and Mack in the offseason (and in a more indirect matter, potentially losing Hayward and Favors as well). If the Jazz have a successful season, retain their core guys, and Exum struggles throughout the rest of the season, then I could see the Jazz moving him for a proven backup PG or big.

tl;dr - Exum is a confidence player with no confidence, needs to either have a bit of freedom to play and make mistakes (D League stint), or string together a couple of solid games in his role while making a couple of extra plays to get his confidence back and return to making strides in his development. Bit of speculation about whether or not the Jazz would trade him at the end.

Thanks to anyone who read the wall of text, I'm a huge fan of Exum and it hurts to see him playing this poorly and watch him have zero confidence. I want him to be great for the Jazz too.
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You see him on the outer in huddles when he use to be the closest to Snyder. I really feel exum is not enjoying his time in Utah, like he once did. As much as i want Exum to be the future leader for the Jazz and be successful as a player, i don't think he can make the leaps necessary under Snyder, and with the win now position the team is in.

Sent from my SM-N920I using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I said teams dont give up on talented players regardless of draft position. Bennett isnt talented.
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Do untalented players usually get picked #1 overall?
 
Sandman822 said:
As someone who has seem Exum play since his HS/U17 FIBA days, this is by far the worst I've seen Exum in terms of confidence on the floor. He's got zero confidence in his ability right now, compared to before he got in the Snyder doghouse for not playing his accustomed defense where he might have been a bit overconfident in his game. That's the sort of confidence that Exum needs to have in order for him to take strides forward in his development offensively, however I completely understand why Snyder would be upset with Exum relying on his athleticism to recover on defensive lapses too often and trying to play outside of his established role when the Jazz are in win now mode with a franchise defining offseason coming up. I don't understand why Snyder would throw him under the media bus though without positively reinforcing the improvement to Dante's aggressiveness and shot selection around the rim. I think a few users alluded to this on this board when it happened.

It's a real shame that Exum's ACL injury happened when it did, as he just got through an 82 game season without missing a game, and helped the team play like a 50 win team post all star break along with Gobert's insertion into the lineup. The stakes weren't as high last season, as a playoff berth would have been more than enough to satisfy the majority of the Jazz fanbase, and Exum would have been able to carry over the confidence he gained from summer league and hopefull from FIBA as well to show those flashes of his game more often throughout a season where he would have the freedom to make mistakes. Even if the Jazz pull the Mack trade off with Exum/Burke/Neto all on the roster, he still would have seen significant minutes and would have had the most freedom out of all of those guys to make mistakes because the Jazz would be more invested in player development rather than trying to get the highest seed possible. If the Jazz made it to the playoffs it would've been a natural evolution of the development of guys like Gobert, Hood, Lyles, etc along with Exum.

Instead he gets laid off of basketball for a year, which was probably the worst thing that could have happened to him in terms of player development, and he's now returned to a high stakes Jazz team where missing the playoffs will be considered a failed season, has two proven veterans in Hill and Mack who are ahead of him in the rotation, and constantly has the pressure of being benched for any poor play in the back of his mind as he's trying to figure out how to be aggressive while also doing what Snyder needs him to do for the sake of the team. Watching him sit with hands in head after getting benched any time he makes a turnover or misses a defensive assignment for a couple of possessions in a row is obviously taking a toll on his confidence.

The good news is that Exum is a hard working kid who is incredibly talented, and is more skilled than some of you are giving him credit for. All it will take is a couple of games where he comes and plays effectively in limited minutes to give him a bit of confidence going forward. It's currently happening with Stanley Johnson in Detroit in a similar situation. Got thrown into SVG's doghouse a few weeks ago and saw a few DNPs, and lately he's been playing effectively within his role and was big for the Pistons today against the Warriors, and he saw a lot of 4th quarter minutes because of his great play. Exum could easily do the same thing, he just needs that breakthrough game where he does everything that's asked of him while playing in his role while also making a couple of extra plays on the offensive end. He has that fire and competitive spirit to build from that if it happens - he's 100% a confidence player. It's not a coincidence that Exum played a lot better when he started in his rookie year instead of coming off the bench.

I think if Snyder is set on not playing Exum when Hill returns, then a stint in the D league with the freedom for Exum to do whatever he wants will be a good short term solution. I also think the Jazz will want to hold on to him for next season, as the uncertainty of the Jazz' future going into the offseason would be enough for the Jazz to keep Exum as a failsafe incase they lose both Hill and Mack in the offseason (and in a more indirect matter, potentially losing Hayward and Favors as well). If the Jazz have a successful season, retain their core guys, and Exum struggles throughout the rest of the season, then I could see the Jazz moving him for a proven backup PG or big.

tl;dr - Exum is a confidence player with no confidence, needs to either have a bit of freedom to play and make mistakes (D League stint), or string together a couple of solid games in his role while making a couple of extra plays to get his confidence back and return to making strides in his development. Bit of speculation about whether or not the Jazz would trade him at the end.

Thanks to anyone who read the wall of text, I'm a huge fan of Exum and it hurts to see him playing this poorly and watch him have zero confidence. I want him to be great for the Jazz too.
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He had plenty of confidence in preseason, was surpassing our expectations, so something happened along the way. Snyder is a tough coach and I think Exum is pressing too much to please him, he needs to be himself not try and be the player Snyder or the media envisions him as. To me that's a more Ricky Rubio type player who probably isn't going to be an all star but will definitely help you win games.
 
Jazz4ever said:
He had plenty of confidence in preseason, was surpassing our expectations, so something happened along the way. Snyder is a tough coach and I think Exum is pressing too much to please him, he needs to be himself not try and be the player Snyder or the media envisions him as. To me that's a more Ricky Rubio type player who probably isn't going to be an all star but will definitely help you win games.
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Nothing really happened along the way. It's preseason vs regular season. Opponents try harder and there is more pressure in the regular season. He is still doing the same things he has done all season. He is trying to drive aggressively to score and play-make. He is just failing a lot, and that is expected. People get too hung up on the results instead of the process. Just go look at a lot of his misses on drives. He is getting to the paint and to the rim. A lot of times he just misses a finish or he pickups his dribble a step too early.
 
Before Trey's offensive explosion last night, him and Dante where basically shooting the same % from the field and scoring just as efficiently, yet we don't have the sky is falling takes on his development and talent? At least not to the same degree, and he is playing an easier position.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Before Trey's offensive explosion last night, him and Dante where basically shooting the same % from the field and scoring just as efficiently, yet we don't have the sky is falling takes on his development and talent? At least not to the same degree, and he is playing an easier position.
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Dante was the 5th pick in a strong draft. The Jazz knew it and strategically tanked that season by taking on Golden State's crap instead of getting a good free agent.
The expectations will always be much higher on Dante compared to Lyles.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Nothing really happened along the way. It's preseason vs regular season. Opponents try harder and there is more pressure in the regular season. He is still doing the same things he has done all season. He is trying to drive aggressively to score and play-make. He is just failing a lot, and that is expected. People get too hung up on the results instead of the process. Just go look at a lot of his misses on drives. He is getting to the paint and to the rim. A lot of times he just misses a finish or he pickups his dribble a step too early.
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His drives suck tho. Always with the quick on the off-foot scoop layups that take the defender by surprise. You can't just rely on those and expect to be effective on the offensive end.

Also, a question, but how much improvement can we expect to his handling? Do players typically improve their handles significantly?
 
Jazz4ever said:
Dante was the 5th pick in a strong draft. The Jazz knew it and strategically tanked that season by taking on Golden State's crap instead of getting a good free agent.
The expectations will always be much higher on Dante compared to Lyles.
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Yeah, so that's a stupid thing to think and let affect your ability to assess players.
 
Siro said:
His drives suck tho. Always with the quick on the off-foot scoop layups that take the defender by surprise. You can't just rely on those and expect to be effective on the offensive end.

Also, a question, but how much improvement can we expect to his handling? Do players typically improve their handles significantly?
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They look kind of awkward yeah, but I wouldn't say they suck. Dante is kind of just an awkward looking dude. The ability to finish off the wrong foot and convert is a good skill to have. I think some of it probably has to do with the knee issues he has been facing, probably doesnt have 100% confidence in his knee yet. Will probably need a full season under his belt before that comes back to full strength.

As far as handle, as I've stated previously, I don't think it's as poor as many make it out to be. Can he improve it significantly? I mean, it's not like he is going to become AI one day, he will always have a naturally high dribble because he is a taller PG. The biggest thing is improving strength, that will help his handle more than anything.
 
Jazz4ever said:
Not really, because the 5th pick had a ton of trade value that year. If Dante don't deliver, it's a pretty wasted asset for the Jazz.
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The position of the draft pick is a sunk cost after it has been used, so it should be irrelevant in evaluating players.
 
I always felt Dante should have done a year or two in college, he always struck me as the sort of young kid who was going to need a little hand holding. You've gotta remember his pathway to the AIS was a bit different to that of most kids, like Ben Simmons he came from a basketball family, so his access top coaching and elite pathways was probably a lot easier than most. Having watched a fair bit of the Jazz this year, he seems to me to have absolutely no confidence, his defence has also regressed a little this year from his rookie year but I still have faith in the kid, he's too competitive to write off, he'll come good.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
They look kind of awkward yeah, but I wouldn't say they suck. Dante is kind of just an awkward looking dude. The ability to finish off the wrong foot and convert is a good skill to have. I think some of it probably has to do with the knee issues he has been facing, probably doesnt have 100% confidence in his knee yet. Will probably need a full season under his belt before that comes back to full strength.

As far as handle, as I've stated previously, I don't think it's as poor as many make it out to be. Can he improve it significantly? I mean, it's not like he is going to become AI one day, he will always have a naturally high dribble because he is a taller PG. The biggest thing is improving strength, that will help his handle more than anything.
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Gobert is/was a pretty awkward looking dude as well. Many of his moves are awkward I think that is why refs struggle to ref both of them.


Remember the first half of the season when Rudy was playing his second year in the NBA when he was 1 year older than Exum. I am guessing people would have been pissed off if he was a high pick. Expectations from fans are higher on players picked high fair or not. People loved Gobert when he was 21 but I dont think anyone expected this level out of him. I think most of us were excited about him for his defense coming off the bench and maybe a starter if he could figure out how to shoot at all or hold onto the ball. He was a mess at times when he was Exums age but showed flashes. It takes a lot more time to develop skills to be a good pg than a big man. Compare some stats with Exum at 21 and Gobert at 21 it is oddly pretty similar. Almost the same off and def rating, same points per game per 36 on the same shooting percentages. Rudy turned the ball over a lot more.

Wish we had called Gobert a bust when he was 21 and looked awkward and struggled with some basic skills. Similar questions were being asked. Can you teach someone to hold onto the ball? It is hard to compare because we want to win now and the board wanted to tank when Gobert was 21/22.

Gobert spent some time in the D-League I think it was okay for him. Mostly it just made him angry which seems to work for motivating Gobert. I think Exum is better served getting most of the backup PG minutes when Hill is back but if Snyder isnt going to give him those then D-League would be good for him. Then he can bounce back and forth and get minutes. Although I think he has a minute restriction with his knee issues anyways.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Gobert is/was a pretty awkward looking dude as well. Many of his moves are awkward I think that is why refs struggle to ref both of them.


Remember the first half of the season when Rudy was playing his second year in the NBA when he was 1 year older than Exum. I am guessing people would have been pissed off if he was a high pick. Expectations from fans are higher on players picked high fair or not. People loved Gobert when he was 21 but I dont think anyone expected this level out of him. I think most of us were excited about him for his defense coming off the bench and maybe a starter if he could figure out how to shoot at all or hold onto the ball. He was a mess at times when he was Exums age but showed flashes. It takes a lot more time to develop skills to be a good pg than a big man. Compare some stats with Exum at 21 and Gobert at 21 it is oddly pretty similar. Almost the same off and def rating, same points per game per 36 on the same shooting percentages. Rudy turned the ball over a lot more.

Wish we had called Gobert a bust when he was 21 and looked awkward and struggled with some basic skills. Similar questions were being asked. Can you teach someone to hold onto the ball? It is hard to compare because we want to win now and the board wanted to tank when Gobert was 21/22.

Gobert spent some time in the D-League I think it was okay for him. Mostly it just made him angry which seems to work for motivating Gobert. I think Exum is better served getting most of the backup PG minutes when Hill is back but if Snyder isnt going to give him those then D-League would be good for him. Then he can bounce back and forth and get minutes. Although I think he has a minute restriction with his knee issues anyways.
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Rudy was basically always productive and mentally he had a fire you could see from day one. Ty Corbin was the only non believer. It's a really ****ty comparison.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Rudy was basically always productive and mentally he had a fire you could see from day one. Ty Corbin was the only non believer. It's a really ****ty comparison.
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He had fire. But he played similar minutes and wasnt productive except defensively. Similar to Exums first year. He dropped the ball a lot, had a lot of turnovers. Shot a poor percentage from the field especially for a big man. He was inconsistent then. Rose colored glasses might be helping. People were excited about Rudy from his summer league games (kind of like Exum last year) but most people were hoping for a solid bench defender or good all around starter. It wasn't until he got to start when Kanter got hurt people started thinking he could be more. The have been very similar just people's expectations are different. If this was Exums rookie year people would also be more excited. Rudy was 21 his rookie year.
 
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Ron Mexico said:
He had fire. But he played similar minutes and want productive except defensively. Similar to Exums first year. He dropped the ball a lot, had a lot of turnovers. Shot a poor percentage from the field especially for a big man. He was inconsistent then. Rose colored glasses might be helping. People were excited about Rudy from his summer league games (kind of like Exum last year) but most people were hoping for a solid bench defender or good all around starter. It wasn't until he got to start when Kanter got hurt people started thinking he could be more. The have been very similar just people's expectations are different. If this was Exums rookie year people would also be more excited. Rudy was 21 his rookie year.
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He was dominant defensively and he shot 48%... wasn't handed any playing time so only played in 40 games. You could see real flashes and while he wasn't perfect... my only concern with him was durability because of his frame... can't speak for others but you could tell that he'd be a good NBA player if healthy. Good rebounder good shot blocker... his awkwardness was a bit more acceptable because he's a freak of nature physically. He still looks awkward as hell doing some things because of his size.

I see no real comparison here... like at all.
 
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