Tony Jones: Favors and Jazz unlikely to reach an agreement on renegotiation and extension

[Handlogten's Heros]

If you want a backup big man, you hate Favors and think he can't read good.

I think I was also accused of saying Luke Babbit was better than Favors because I thought we might be better with a big wing who can stretch the floor.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If you want a backup big man, you hate Favors and think he can't read good.

read well.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yes, it actually does give them the time to decide the best path going forward. If they decide they want to trade Favors and keep some financial flexibility to re-sign some of the younger guys on rookie deals or free up cap space for a big trade, they can. And if they decide they want Favors longterm, they can re-sign Favors in 2018. It doesn't really matter whether he signs now or in 2018. Either way they're over the cap. But if you extend him now... that's it. This is the team you're counting on to become a champion because the flexibility is gone.

Not really... could still trade him unless he got hurt. The idea is use money now to lessen the cap hit later. Might be the difference between over the cap and over the luxury tax.

I think Favs may get moved in the offseason... likely after we have either re-signed Hayward or he has walked and we need a replacement.

 

[NAOS]

There are some mega-deluded fans on this site.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Nah, you are definitely whiny. He left cap-space open hoping he could get an extension done and it didnt happen. The Jazz made trade offers involving 1st round picks (according to Locke) and it didnt work out. DL isn't a fortune teller, he can't full predict the future to know how to spend every dollar as efficiently as possible.

His job is to anticipate and learn from mistakes. With regard to cap space, he's done jack **** since taking on $25 of deadweight to acquire a (wasted) pick, the last pick of the first round this year, and some second-rounders that will almost certainly never have basketball value.

 

[Maneesh]

DL is no more than KOC clone and Borg of JAZZ!!!!! LYLES HAS NO BALANCES!!!!!! He will NEVER forget make pass on BOOKER!!!

 

[stitches]

I think I was also accused of saying Luke Babbit was better than Favors because I thought we might be better with a big wing who can stretch the floor.

It was my argument and I didn't accuse you of anything like that. I was trying to make the point that fit << skill and quality and just used an extreme example in Babbit.

 

[NAOS]

Cakk Bakking Part Deux

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

His job is to anticipate and learn from mistakes. With regard to cap space, he's done jack **** since taking on $25 of deadweight to acquire a (wasted) pick, the last pick of the first round this year, and some second-rounders that will almost certainly never have basketball value.

I think one of the picks was Rodney Hood iirc. That may have been during KOC reign though.

The cap space thing is fair. The JJ signing was nice. The Hayward extension mis-assessment was understandable given that the world freaked out when he signed his QO... many did not seem to think there would be those kind of offers out there.

The cakk baking was absolutely a mistake... he admitted as much. This year is kind of whatevs... I would have liked to think he felt reasonably sure he could get an extension done with one of those guys or had plans to use the space in some other meaningful way. Not going to freak out on it costing us a second round pick. It is just a little troubling that we haven't done better on this aspect of roster building.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I dont mind criticizing moves, but you have to acknowledge why the move was made and the potential benefits of making said move. If you just criticize it because you have the gift of hindsight then the criticism (imo) is whiny.

DL made a trade to free up cap-space in hopes to use it to extend one of Hill or Favors. It didnt happen. That sucks, but ultimately out of DL's control if their agents had too high an asking price.

So yes, DL's move ultimately failed, but the price was just two second round picks in a draft where we have 2 first rounds picks and 2 additional second round picks. So he took a very minor L.

Now people are complaining we arent using the cap space to acquire some useless veterans who wouldnt get playing time on our team other than to spell a guy here or there. Or in the case of D-Will, a player who would improve our team certainly, but would take away time from Exum at PG and would likely not be the difference between losing or winning a playoff series.

1. We dont need anymore vets atm
2. They dont want to come here, so we really dont need vets who dont want to be here
3. We need to give minutes to players who need to develop (Exum and hopefully eventually Lyles again)
4. It isnt our money so who cares if they have some excess wasted dollars going to our roster in the form of a bonus?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It was my argument and I didn't accuse you of anything like that. I was trying to make the point that fit << skill and quality and just used an extreme example in Babbit.

I sincerely forgot it was you... Ha.

I had a few people take what I was saying and morph it into things I wasn't saying at all. I don't like being accused of being whiny because I can point out things I see that I don't agree with. Was saying Fire DL! or that Dante is a Bust! or Trade Favs for pennies on the dollar! But like the premise of this thread... just stood there with shoulders shrugged saying... What exactly is the plan and where did we fail to execute?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I dont mind criticizing moves, but you have to acknowledge why the move was made and the potential benefits of making said move. If you just criticize it because you have the gift of hindsight then the criticism (imo) is whiny.

DL made a trade to free up cap-space in hopes to use it to extend one of Hill or Favors. It didnt happen. That sucks, but ultimately out of DL's control if their agents had too high an asking price.

So yes, DL's move ultimately failed, but the price was just two second round picks in a draft where we have 2 first rounds picks and 2 additional second round picks. So he took a very minor L.

Now people are complaining we arent using the cap space to acquire some useless veterans who wouldnt get playing time on our team other than to spell a guy here or there. Or in the case of D-Will, a player who would improve our team certainly, but would take away time from Exum at PG and would likely not be the difference between losing or winning a playoff series.

1. We dont need anymore vets atm
2. They dont want to come here, so we really dont need vets who dont want to be here
3. We need to give minutes to players who need to develop (Exum and hopefully eventually Lyles again)
4. It isnt our money so who cares if they have some excess wasted dollars going to our roster in the form of a bonus?

Complaining and suggesting other moves are different things.

I've been consistent on my criticism of our cap management for a while now... no hindsight used at all. I merely said we have two choices... either we are cheap or we have mismanaged our cap space.

The money thing is fine, but don't say we don't care how they use their money and not acknowledge that we have sold second round picks to get cash in the door. Those are prospects that could turn into players which I do care about.

This year the cost is minimal. It was clear D-Will didn't want to come so I'm not sure we can consider that a real option. The other options are fairly vanilla. I would advocate picking someone up though to save the money and invest the money to help do something at draft time.

Whether they do any of these things is not a big deal to me and I'm impressed with our overall team and just want the best for us... if we aren't able to hold the main pieces together next year will be a downer that we didn't push a few more small chips to the middle to improve... even if it is at backup PG or PF.

 

[Game6Conley]

Good thing they've got all that valuable cap space!!! What a turnaround!! from championing flexibility to completely pigeon-holing themselves into relying on re-signing UFA's (with ample RFA's to sign too).


Going for it with one of the cheapest rosters in the league sure is tricky...


Lets not forget I got all sorts of **** this summer here for predicting these very type of issues... (Hill trade and the Harry Barnes witch-hunt). I still do, I post ideas on adding players locked in on reasonable deals for seasons to come and they're quickly besmirched here.

 

[colton]

read well.

I thought it was a reference to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRPfY4mE4ME

 

[NAOS]

Is Hayward going to be able to say "I'm going to stick with the Jazz because they have a clear track record of maximizing team assets and building the most competitive roster possible"? Answer: No.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Complaining and suggesting other moves are different things.

I've been consistent on my criticism of our cap management for a while now... no hindsight used at all. I merely said we have two choices... either we are cheap or we have mismanaged our cap space.

The money thing is fine, but don't say we don't care how they use their money and not acknowledge that we have sold second round picks to get cash in the door. Those are prospects that could turn into players which I do care about.

This year the cost is minimal. It was clear D-Will didn't want to come so I'm not sure we can consider that a real option. The other options are fairly vanilla. I would advocate picking someone up though to save the money and invest the money to help do something at draft time.

Whether they do any of these things is not a big deal to me and I'm impressed with our overall team and just want the best for us... if we aren't able to hold the main pieces together next year will be a downer that we didn't push a few more small chips to the middle to improve... even if it is at backup PG or PF.

So your criticism would have been the same if we managed to extend George Hill?

 

[addictionary]

Favors is my favorite player on the team but he also is the dream that never has seen the light of the day. We all knew it would come down to this. I am sure he will achieve greater things in some place else.


I post, therefore I am.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So your criticism would have been the same if we managed to extend George Hill?

No... I would have been clapping for joy!

I do imagine we had those conversations early and they just said sorry not happening. Seems to be the case based on things Locke and Tony Jones have said. I believe I even prefaced most of my "what about this guy" questions with "if we can't get Hill to extend".

When you know that isn't happening I think you look to do other things... I think it has been clear for a while (to Jazz management) that it wasn't happening.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

I'd wait until they actually fail to come to terms before getting pissed off about it.

But then the malcontents might lose an opportunity to bitch and moan, and the better this team gets, the harder it might be to find opportunities to trash management. Gotta make the most of your bitching opportunities.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Wasnt that also so we could sign Bolomboy?

IIRC, yes it was. I remember a report that Bolomboy wasn't willing to play in Europe.

There are always 2 sides to every negotiation. I've been hyper critical of DL in many instances. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If Favs plays like he has the past 2 games, he's worth $20m. But if he has a few good games, followed by more knee problems, then Utah needs to find another PF. Jazz can't afford to invest big time $ in a player who may be hurt most of the time. He's signed for another season. Let his play determine his value. This isn't a Curry-type situation. This could be a chronic knee injury. And who knows, maybe DL is offering $15m and his agent wants $30m.