Official Sign DeAndre Jordan Thread (Note from Jazzfanz: Thread not official)

[NAOS]

Only it's not. If it were, he'd be able to get to the line and/or shoot a better percentage. Why is this so hard to understand?

I'm more in GVC's camp. And, I'd add that if he were 'elite' in the post, then he'd be better not only at drawing contact, but in using it regardless of whether his intent was to draw the foul or not. His passing got a little better at the end of the year; that is also a big part of an 'elite' post game... and he is far from spades in that facet.

In the end, I'd trade him over Millsap if one had to go. You don't come across closers of Millsap's ilk very often. And, his paycheck is much better.

 

[GVC]

I'll add that Big Al averages 0.89 points per possession on post ups (this includes free throws on these possessions).

Paul Millsap averages 1.05 points per possession on post ups (while also being a much better passer).

 

[GVC]

And, just for fun, here's a rundown of the PPP on post ups for qualified (according to NBA.com) NBA bigs (those who played the majority of their minutes at the 4 and 5 according to 82games.com) who averaged 15+ points per game this season:

A. Stoudemire (25.3 PPG): 1.08 PPP on post ups
D. Nowitzki (23.0): 1.13
D. Howard (22.9): 0.93
B. Griffin (22.5): 0.9
L. Aldridge (21.8): 0.87
A. Bargnani (21.4): 0.95
B. Lopez (20.4): 0.96
K. Love (20.2): 0.91
Z. Randolph (20.1): 0.9
D. West (18.9): 0.94
P. Gasol (18.8): 0.91
A. Jefferson (18.6): 0.89
C. Bosh (18.7): 0.85
L. Scola (18.3): 0.86
P. Millsap (17.3): 1.05
J. Smith (16.5): 0.78
D. Lee (16.5): 0.78
A. Horford (15.3): 0.85
E. Brand (15.0): 0.98

That makes Big Al 13th of 19 on this list. Far from elite.

 

[NAOS]

And, just for fun, here's a rundown of the PPP on post ups for qualified (according to NBA.com) NBA bigs (those who played the majority of their minutes at the 4 and 5 according to 82games.com) who averaged 15+ points per game this season:

A. Stoudemire (25.3 PPG): 1.08 PPP on post ups
D. Nowitzki (23.0): 1.13
D. Howard (22.9): 0.93
B. Griffin (22.5): 0.9
L. Aldridge (21.8): 0.87
A. Bargnani (21.4): 0.95
B. Lopez (20.4): 0.96
K. Love (20.2): 0.91
Z. Randolph (20.1): 0.9
D. West (18.9): 0.94
P. Gasol (18.8): 0.91
A. Jefferson (18.6): 0.89
C. Bosh (18.7): 0.85
L. Scola (18.3): 0.86
P. Millsap (17.3): 1.05
J. Smith (16.5): 0.78
D. Lee (16.5): 0.78
A. Horford (15.3): 0.85
E. Brand (15.0): 0.98

That makes Big Al 13th of 19 on this list. Far from elite.

a small addition:
Al Jefferson attempted 16 shots/game last season
Paul Millsap attempted 13 shots/game last season

doesn't say anything about post-ups specifically, but it does say a little about their minor scoring difference...... especially when you consider how much more work goes into getting Al the ball where he wants it.

 

[GVC]

And keep in mind that these stats take turnovers, but not other offense created (hitting cutters/shooters when double teamed), into account, making Al's contributions when getting the ball in the post somewhat inflated (IMO) since he rarely gets easier shots for his teammates from the post.

A couple other stats of interest:

League-wide average for PPP on postups is (roughly) 0.87.

14 NBA teams shoot at or above .89 PPP on postups.

How is Big Al elite in the post?

 

[freakazoid]

Only it's not. If it were, he'd be able to get to the line and/or shoot a better percentage. Why is this so hard to understand?

I 'd like to see some stats comparing his first half of the season to the second half. To me, it seemed like there was a huge difference. In no way would I consider any part of his game to be elite in the first half. In the second half of the season, I'd have a hard time believing that Al's post game wasn't right up there with the best in the league.

 

[GVC]

I 'd like to see some stats comparing his first half of the season to the second half. To me, it seemed like there was a huge difference. In no way would I consider any part of his game to be elite in the first half. In the second half of the season, I'd have a hard time believing that Al's post game wasn't right up there with the best in the league.

His TS% went up, but was still poor vs. other NBA bigs. As far as his post ups (and other types of shots), I don't know. Given his still sub-par TS% during his best stretch of the season (he still was tissue paper soft), and his piss-poor passing, I doubt he'd be among the "elite" in postups.

And, while I understand the argument that his improvements were due to finally getting into the flow of the offense and feeling better about his knee, I think it's more than a little disingenuous to dismiss his early season struggles. Scoring while opposing teams are either safely in the lead or have no hope for the playoffs is a lot easier than scoring in competitive games against teams that still think they have a shot at the playoffs.

 

[billyshelby]

His TS% went up, but was still poor vs. other NBA bigs. As far as his post ups (and other types of shots), I don't know. Given his still sub-par TS% during his best stretch of the season (he still was tissue paper soft), and his piss-poor passing, I doubt he'd be among the "elite" in postups.

And, while I understand the argument that his improvements were due to finally getting into the flow of the offense and feeling better about his knee, I think it's more than a little disingenuous to dismiss his early season struggles. Scoring while opposing teams are either safely in the lead or have no hope for the playoffs is a lot easier than scoring in competitive games against teams that still think they have a shot at the playoffs.

It's not disingenuous at all. It's called looking beyond the stats. Al came into his own in the second half. So there's basically 3 ways to look at him. 1) He got hot and he's more like the guy he was in the 1st half, 2) He's streaky and so his final numbers in any year will reflect hot and cold months, or 3) He's closer to the player in the 2nd half who dominated in the post.

I'm going with option 3. I know you won't. We'll just see how it plays out.

 

[GVC]

3) He's closer to the player in the 2nd half who dominated in the post.

Only, AGAIN, he didn't dominate. His true shooting in his best stretch was still a far cry from "domination", as I've pointed out before. It seems getting anything through your thick skull is near impossible. I'm not surprised you've yet to respond with anything substantive to my last few posts in this thread.

meh.

 

[GVC]

It's called looking beyond the stats.

It's called ignoring the stats. It's amazing what people can convince themselves of when they resort to this sort of "analysis".

 

[Sneakers]

Millsap's a really good shooter. Which is why I wish to god he would accept that bench role. Stupid ego.

 

[GVC]

Millsap's a really good shooter. Which is why I wish to god he would accept that bench role. Stupid ego.

He's also arguably Utah's best player. Why should he have to come off the bench? Start Favors and Millsap, bring Big Al off the bench.

That is, if Big Al's ego would allow for that...