Jazz ban 2nd fan for calling Westbrook "boy"

[cowhide]

I've had black guys call/say to me "hey dog!" Now THAT'S demeaning! But black guys use that expression ALL THE TIME, both to each other and to white guys! Calling a person a "dog" is about as low as you can get! In Bible History, dogs were the most unclean of animals and were never let inside the gates of Jerusalem nor could they be "cuddled" or allowed to lick your face!

Seriously, do you really think that has the same meaning today?

 

[DasJazz]

Point out to me that last time this happened.

I guarantee you if you watch games often enough or hell even ESPN highlights you can read lips from the sidelines with players celebrating and saying that. That's why I said context is important. I don't believe the fan was right, he was definitely trying to get under Russell's skin and make him angry, but my point, again, was and is about context. And to say or act like players don't use that specific phrase that I noted is just willful blindness.

 

[firegirl]

It’s not fair to expect everyone to know everything that can be perceived as racist. Live and learn. No need to be arrogant.

"Boy" isn't some obscure racially charged word that no one knows about. I'm not trying to be arrogant. People should learn history and educate themselves.


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[firegirl]

I don't think the steps that the Jazz have taken recently are a bad thing but the t-shirts worn by the players tonight made me feel like the Jazz are trying too hard and it felt over the top.

You, obviously, are white.


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[firegirl]

If the guy next to you is yelling racist stuff, and you are not saying anything, the guy next to you is making you look bad. If you don't like it, don't show up for Jazz games. The crowd is treated as, and often acts like, a single entity, and what others do and you don't object to reflects on you.



So, you don't mind when people refer to you as a knuckle-walking low-browed self-blinding bonobo? I mean, if you object, just let me know, because I would not want to call you that if it was offensive to you. Of course, since you are not going to get all hypersensitive and PC on me, you won't bother to object, right?



Anyone can be prejudiced (and pretty much everyone is), and anyone can be bigoted. Racism involves the social power structure, and you can only be racist when supporting that power structure. So, black people are racist when they show bigotry to other black people (for example, Jesse Lee Peterson), but since the power structures favor white people the most, white people can not be the victims of racism (although they can be the victims of prejudice and bigotry).



If you were really respectful of all people, you wouldn't need to be guilted into fighting racism, you would be doing it out of you respect for all people.



I'm sure it is making things worse for you. It's making things better for me.

Well put. This 100%.


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[Keefe]

I like the steps that have been taken and I like the shirts but they do feel like overcompensation and as if they’re saying, “Look, we’re not racist here in Utah!” when the recent events and historical commentary from NBA players says otherwise.

And no, I’m not saying y’all are racists.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I have no doubt that fans at other arenas yell racial epithets at players. That said, Utah has a reputation, and this reputation is that it is white, ultra-conservative, and Mormon, with Mormons having a rather sordid history in its treatment of blacks. Hence, the suggestion that people in Utah tend toward the racist end of the spectrum is easy for people to believe. Owing in large part to this reputation, players (and public at large) have formed preconceptions, rightly or wrongly, about the people here. Thus, they are on the lookout, and particularly sensitive, to anything that serves to reinforce these preconceptions . Thus while fans in, say, Orlando may also yell racial epithets, players will take less notice than if people in Salt Lake due, because in the latter case, they reinforce preconceptions, whereas in the former case, they do not. As a general rule, when people have formed pre-conceptions, they tend to latch onto what reinforces those preconceptions, often given them grossly disproportionate weight, while ignoring, or giving less weight, to what contradicts those preconceptions. That's just human nature.

I don't believe the normal rules of civility apply to sports arenas, stadiums, etc., e.g., we don't normally boo people we don't like or stand up and cheer for our friends in public. But the rules of civility are not completely tossed out the window. However, yelling racial epithets, or calling African American players names with clear historial racist connotations like "boy," clearly cross any reasonable line one would care to draw regarding rules of civility in sporting arenas. It's not that hard to figure out.

Good for the Jazz for making an example of these racist buffoons. Now, if only we'd do the same on this board with our our racist buffoons...looking at you Carolina Jazz.

 

[Stoked]

You, obviously, are white.


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So? To often this “you’re white” game is simply an attempt to silence whites on the subject of racism because their opinion on how to move forward is different. Stop it. When you silence a group like that it’ll lead nowhere good.

In this specific example, you’re right. He is probable ignorant (not an attack. A statement of his unknowing) of the context and history of the word.

But you can keep the “you’re white” line. No thanks.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I don’t know what is and isn’t racist anymore. This whole thing has been crazy. I guess just don’t talk to them is the safe thing to do.

Honestly, certain things are pretty clear about what is racist. Calling African Americans names that have been historically used to demean and oppress them is pretty clearly racist. If you're not sure about something, then just don't. The cost to you of not doing so is really quite small.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

My question in all of this: How many fans are gonna get lifetime bans when a particularly sensitive player points security at an annoying fan for being "mean" (without any evidence, or any actual racism/hate)? Is this gonna be exploited during playoff games to silence the crowd? Or is that just a paranoid idea?

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It's a paranoid idea.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Is that really a classic line, or are you just reminding everyone what your worldview is?

The latter, clearly.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Strange how the more removed from slavery and more equality we get the more sensitive we've become. It's almost as if these hypersensitive AF white boys need something racist to happen to wallow in their guilt.

I hope this is parody. You do realize don't you that this is the very type of dog whistle BS that racists everywhere spout when something like this happens? You've misread your audience (with the exception of CJ who probably got a woody on reading it). When normal people read this kind of stuff, they don't think, "wow, that's insightful," they think, "wow, that guy's a racist douche."

 

[Stoked]

If the guy next to you is yelling racist stuff, and you are not saying anything, the guy next to you is making you look bad. If you don't like it, don't show up for Jazz games. The crowd is treated as, and often acts like, a single entity, and what others do and you don't object to reflects on you.



So, you don't mind when people refer to you as a knuckle-walking low-browed self-blinding bonobo? I mean, if you object, just let me know, because I would not want to call you that if it was offensive to you. Of course, since you are not going to get all hypersensitive and PC on me, you won't bother to object, right?



Anyone can be prejudiced (and pretty much everyone is), and anyone can be bigoted. Racism involves the social power structure, and you can only be racist when supporting that power structure. So, black people are racist when they show bigotry to other black people (for example, Jesse Lee Peterson), but since the power structures favor white people the most, white people can not be the victims of racism (although they can be the victims of prejudice and bigotry).



If you were really respectful of all people, you wouldn't need to be guilted into fighting racism, you would be doing it out of you respect for all people.



I'm sure it is making things worse for you. It's making things better for me.

I disagree, strongly, with some aspects of this.

But the main point I wanted to make is in regards to the first paragraph.

No, don’t leave or stop attending. Speak up on the damn spot and call that person out. Change the conversation at the moment it happens. People will continue to behave this way until confronted and shown a better way. Don’t run and hide. Stand up and speak up. As you do so you will inspire others to do the same. Either on the spot or later in another instance they see.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

I hope this is parody. You do realize don't you that this is the very type of dog whistle BS that racists everywhere spout when something like this happens? You've misread your audience (with the exception of CJ who probably got a woody on reading it). When normal people read this kind of stuff, they don't think, "wow, that's insightful," they think, "wow, that guy's a racist douche."

I'll let somebody else explain to you what dog whistle means.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I'll let somebody else explain to you what dog whistle means.

I know well what it means.

You don't want to actually say something overtly racist, so you use code words and phrases plainly understood by the in group as to what you really mean. Making light of racist statements and implying that those who are offended by them are pansies or suffering from white guilt, etc., pure dog whistle.

 

[fishonjazz]

I see that @fishonjazz has more than double the number of posts of the next highest poster this week. That's obviously due, in part, to his high-quality work in this thread. smh.

Ya i probably shouldnt have talked about this issue. My bad. Should have remained silent.


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[Stoked]

I’d love to see some type of video like this done by Dwayne Johnson, Chris Evans, Ken Nwadike, the Pope, Danai Gurira, Keith Ellison, the Prophet, Steve Jobs, LeBron James, Serena Williams, Dhalai Lama, Julia Roberts, Adele, AOC, Lenny Kravitz, Michael Phelps...

Mix huge names in religion, politics, music, sports, literature, education, cinema, business...

Include the major groups across the board.

 

[Stoked]

Ya i probably shouldnt have talked about this issue. My bad. Should have remained silent.


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Do not be silenced if your effort is to connect, learn and grow.

 

[fishonjazz]

getting him to stfu would hardly be useless. If anybody is taking his particular brand of "middle of the road" to heart, then that aint good. In short, he should stfu.

Agreed. World would be much less racist and a better place in general if there were less discussion and if i just decided that i dont want to try to learn anything about something im ignorant about. My bad for trying to prompt people to tell me thier thoughts and ideas on the matter. Staying ignorant and silent was the better option in this case.


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[fishonjazz]

Last night i was outside a bar having a smoke when a fight broke out. 4 guys were beating the **** out of one dude. The dude was down on the sidewalk getting punched and kicked.
I jumped in and started pulling people off the guy since i dont like to see people get hurt and didnt want the guy to die. It was a difficult process the get them to stop attacking the man and thank god a bouncer eventually got there to help me stop the attack.

After it was over and the man escaped and took off i was talking to the attackers to figure out what happened.
One of the attackers was a black man and he told me that the guy had used the N word with a hard er at the end. He was really shaken up.

A little while later i was in the bathroom peeing and he was in there on his phone talking to someone about the incident. He was still really shaken up and angry.

When he came out of the bathroom and was off the phone i went up to him and told him that i was sorry he had to go through that. He thanked me for stopping the fight and shared an embrace with me.

Racism sucks but at least i think i know a bit more about it today than i did a week ago. This thread and some of the people in it helped i think.


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