Privileged by Kyle Korver

[One Brow]

I'm not a Trump guy, but seems he has done more for minorities improving their lot in life in 2 years than Obama did in 8 years. Employment and opportunity are an all time high. I was truly hopeful that Obama would inspire and lead a major shift. Nothing ever seemed to happen.

It's easy to overstate the effects a President has on an economy, but to the degree such effects exist, they take about 3 years or so to be visible. The economic uplift of the last 2 years, to the degree any President should get credit, would go to Obama.

 

[Alfalfa]

So many painfully ignorant opinions based on YouTube videos. It is insane.

I know many of you are hopeless, but for those interested in learning more about the history of racism in the US, I highly recommend Stamped from the Beginning by Ibram Kendy. It's a fantastic overview of racist ideas in the US, and their progress across the past few centuries.

 

[One Brow]

Do you honestly feel that there is no judgement involved when someone claims that another has "White Privilege"? If someone tells me I have white privilege, without knowing me or my background, to me that is a judgment. They would be suggesting that I've benefited from systemic advantages. This is diminishing my accomplishments (however little they are).

Having white privilege doesn't mean you didn't struggle or didn't achieve, it means while you were struggling, you didn't also have an entire additional load of nonsense to fight. To the degree it is a benefit, it is mostly a privative benefit, that is, a benefit of what you don't have to experience.

If you listen to the short clip, I believe you will agree that a degree of judgement towards another person is involved when claiming another has White Privilege.

Or, you could interpret that clip as someone recognizing the person they are talking to has more expertise than she supposed, like if I were to try to talk to infection about medicine and then find out he has a lot more expertise.

 

[One Brow]

Should he as a white male start kneeling in support of his teammates? It could start the conversation that the NBA has stayed away from having. Eagles player Chris Long seems to be the leader on this problem.

Even better, ask his team mates how they would like him to show them support.

 

[Archie Moses]

Should he as a white male start kneeling in support of his teammates? It could start the conversation that the NBA has stayed away from having. Eagles player Chris Long seems to be the leader on this problem.

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If Kyle Korver, or whoever, felt inclined to kneel during the National Anthem because they felt it was the right way to protest injustices, police brutality, racism and start conversation then go for it. It doesn't really matter what my opinion is.

I'm not the biggest fan of Kaep, or kneeling during the anthem. I believe Kaep started this movement based on some false narratives. That said, I've come to realize that those who have knelt are sincerely doing it because they believe in the cause and it's very personal to them. Kaep has certainly rubbed me wrong, but I've also learned more about him. He puts a lot of time, money, and effort into fighting for what he believes in and I respect that.

 

[LoPo]

It's easy to overstate the effects a President has on an economy, but to the degree such effects exist, they take about 3 years or so to be visible. The economic uplift of the last 2 years, to the degree any President should get credit, would go to Obama.

Usually, you might have a point. However, the stock market spiked and has stayed high once he won the election. It happened immediately. People can try to give credit to Obama all they want, but regardless, he is the only 8 year President ever without at least one year of 2% growth. So he came into a wrecked economy and pretty much never fixed it.

Trump is an ***, but the economy has been spectacular. He's a big reason for it.

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[AlaskanAssassin]

I read Sowell's opinions regularly, once upon a time. I found his economic perspectives pretty standard right-wing stuff. However, for Sowell, you can find hundreds of Coates, Jabbars, etc. I have no problem accepting Sowell's descriptions of his own experiences, but they are dwarfed by the descriptions of other black writers. Are you as willing to accept the experiences and research of Coates as I am of Sowell?

First off, is your avatar a Catan board with a sword through it? Thanks for the dialogue.

Admittedly, I should do more reading of other intellectuals on matters or race, social economics, etc. However, I wouldn't characterize Sowell's work as descriptions of his own experiences. Anecdotal examples are not what he's using to make his arguments. He's a Senior Fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institute. I've only read one of his books, but it was based almost entirely on research performed. I'm not sure calling his work "Standard Right Wing" is accurate either, as his teachings are much more classic liberal or libertarian.

Is not equity the way to allow everyone to rise and fall on their own merits?

That's not my understanding of equity, that's how I would describe equality. Equity would be forcing an equality of outcome, as opposed to equality of opportunity. We can't legislate or force our way to provide an equal outcome in life for everyone or every subset of the American people.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

Having white privilege doesn't mean you didn't struggle or didn't achieve, it means while you were struggling, you didn't also have an entire additional load of nonsense to fight. To the degree it is a benefit, it is mostly a privative benefit, that is, a benefit of what you don't have to experience.

Doesn't everyone have different afflictions and disadvantages they have to fight throughout life? White people have significantly higher rates of suicide than all other racial groups, aside from Native Americans. Is this factored into my White privilege? Is the fact that millions of dollars every year in scholarships are awarded exclusively to Black students factored in? What about colleges requiring lower SAT scores for minority students?

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Since it keeps being brought up in the progress portion of the duscussion, it's complete nonsense that white nationalism is on the rise because of 9-11 or Obama or Trump or whatever happens in the next year or two. Try to have at least a tiny grasp on recent and past history.

What you see is a manifestation of racism that already exists. Say post 9-11, you probably heard plenty anti-Moslem sentiment about blasting those sand something or others and bombing the middle east into a glass playground. Much of that was a manifestation of existing racist sentiment. Just because you heard more of it does not equal a rise in white nationalism, even though that narrative is convenient to your obscured worldview.

Compare post 9-11 to post Pearl Harbor, when America locked up citizens in internment camps.

White nationalism is in decline, political discourse isnt at an all time high, we aren't more divided than ever, and throw whatever other devastating world us ending POV into this basket. It's all nonsense.

 

[fishonjazz]

Since it keeps being brought up in the progress portion of the duscussion, it's complete nonsense that white nationalism is on the rise because of 9-11 or Obama or Trump or whatever happens in the next year or two. Try to have at least a tiny grasp on recent and past history.

What you see is a manifestation of racism that already exists. Say post 9-11, you probably heard plenty anti-Moslem sentiment about blasting those sand something or others and bombing the middle east into a glass playground. Much of that was a manifestation of existing racist sentiment. Just because you heard more of it does not equal a rise in white nationalism, even though that narrative is convenient to your obscured worldview.

Compare post 9-11 to post Pearl Harbor, when America locked up citizens in internment camps.

White nationalism is in decline, political discourse isnt at an all time high, we aren't more divided than ever, and throw whatever other devastating world us ending POV into this basket. It's all nonsense.

Agree to disagree

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[Keefe]

Lol at the idea of groups of nba players kneeling. It’ll never happen.

 

[Stoked]

Lol at the idea of groups of nba players kneeling. It’ll never happen.

I doubt we see kneeling but we’ve already seen signs of protest or displays of unity. Linked arms, heads bowed, hoodies, remaining in the locker room...

 

[Keefe]

NFL players stand on the sidelines, 20 yards or so away from fans, during the national anthem. NBA players stand 5 feet.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Agree to disagree

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I feel sorry for you and others who feel that way. I am curious tho, how far back are we going if you believe white nationalism is higher than Japanes Internment Era? Reconstruction? Naturalization Act of 1790?

 

[fishonjazz]

I feel sorry for you and others who feel that way. I am curious tho, how far back are we going if you believe white nationalism is higher than Japanes Internment Era? Reconstruction? Naturalization Act of 1790?

I was mostly disagreeing about not being more divided as a nation than before.
I feel that the democrats vs republicans division is stronger than ever


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[idestroyedthetoilet]

I was mostly disagreeing about not being more divided as a nation than before.
I feel that the democrats vs republicans division is stronger than ever


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That seems to be natural, instinctual even since people have been saying the same thing forever. Books have been written about it. I remember an SKA post on it way back when, about how they used to have fistfights in the halls of Congress and even on the House floor. There's the famous duel, and of course the Civil War being the height of division. We were divided over fighting WWII, and on and on. Division in debate always has been and always will be, and all these calls for the need to come together are only empty lip service, bemoaning the process. We talk about and praise uniting leaders and the neverending need for another, but in my view they are a product of culmination rather than the other way around.

But in the end the way we see division is a feeling, and we cant argue against how someone feels.

 

[LogGrad98]

That seems to be natural, instinctual even since people have been saying the same thing forever. Books have been written about it. I remember an SKA post on it way back when, about how they used to have fistfights in the halls of Congress and even on the House floor. There's the famous duel, and of course the Civil War being the height of division. We were divided over fighting WWII, and on and on. Division in debate always has been and always will be, and all these calls for the need to come together are only empty lip service, bemoaning the process. We talk about and praise uniting leaders and the neverending need for another, but in my view they are a product of culmination rather than the other way around.

But in the end the way we see division is a feeling, and we cant argue against how someone feels.

Voting records and such seem to show an increasing divide.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-1970s-and-has-been-getting-worse-ever-since/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...ongress-house-representatives-60-years-2016-4

 

[fishonjazz]

That seems to be natural, instinctual even since people have been saying the same thing forever. Books have been written about it. I remember an SKA post on it way back when, about how they used to have fistfights in the halls of Congress and even on the House floor. There's the famous duel, and of course the Civil War being the height of division. We were divided over fighting WWII, and on and on. Division in debate always has been and always will be, and all these calls for the need to come together are only empty lip service, bemoaning the process. We talk about and praise uniting leaders and the neverending need for another, but in my view they are a product of culmination rather than the other way around.

But in the end the way we see division is a feeling, and we cant argue against how someone feels.

Probably has something to do with the presence of media in todays society, especially social media.


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[fishonjazz]

Voting records and such seem to show an increasing divide.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-1970s-and-has-been-getting-worse-ever-since/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...ongress-house-representatives-60-years-2016-4

That second link is eye opening. Everyone should watch it.


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[idestroyedthetoilet]

Voting records and such seem to show an increasing divide.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...-1970s-and-has-been-getting-worse-ever-since/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...ongress-house-representatives-60-years-2016-4

I don5 doubt that congressional divide has widened recently. I posted some stuff about blue dogs being devoured back around the mid-terms but it was ignored.