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An Alleged 1953 UFO Crash and Burial Near Garrison, Utah

So last year I went to Ukraine and hung out with my Russian tutor in Odessa. She's very smart but kind of reserved about her opinions on things. Around the third day she started kind of hinting that she had some "out there" beliefs about what was really going on in the world. She would occassionally ask me if I believed in "a world beyond her own." I kind of thought she was talking about ghosts or other paranormal stuff. I like her and humored her, but had no real interest in the topic. Around the time I was getting ready to leave she very sincerely asked me to read a book about her beliefs called "The Universe and We. (translated)" I had a 12 hour plane flight ahead of me, so I said sure.

Get on the plane, open up the pdf file and "world beyond our own" was very literal. It was all about aliens.

Lots of portions of the book were verifiably false. For example, it claimed that all the astronauts that had visited the moon came back changed and more religious. We can tell this isn't true because, for example, Neil Armstrong was very famously an atheist. There were other similar claims about the various space programs and what they had discovered.

What I actually got from the experience of reading the book was something different: there was a cultural bent to these particular UFO stories that would strike us as somewhat ludicrous but she took totally seriously. There were descriptions in this book of the governing system of the alien race that was watching over us and waiting for mankind to develop to the point that we could take our place among the rest of the galaxy. That governing system sounded suspiciously like the structure of the Supreme Soviet in the 1970s. Of course, the person who wrote the book would have known about that structure. To her, it is a natural way that society would be ordered.

Similarly, the aliens were supposedly interested primarily in an area in and around Luhansk, Ukraine. There's nothing there. There's no obvious thing that's special about it. But, that's really no different than Roswell, New Mexico. To someone from that area, it seems only natural that the aliens would be interested in them. It never seems ludicrous that the things you are familiar with would have some outsize importance or meaning.

Ultimately these beliefs are pretty harmless. The guide to life was pretty standard "treat people well stuff." There's no point in trying to disabuse her of her beliefs. But it make me realize that the belief in these kinds of alien life forms comes from a certain kind of egoism. We desperately WANT to believe that our lives are important enough that something or someone out there would take an interest in them - monitor them from afar - maybe even occasionally intervene for our benefit or to punish the wicked. It's the same forces that make us believe in an active God or even Santa Claus.

So you guys do you. And if you're interested in a pretty attractive Ukrainian who thinks she has psychic abilities and can commune directly with aliens: she's single!
Of course this is just your own personal theory on the matter. No one has been able to crack the nut of the unexplained phenomena. Even in this thread we've seen an assortment of theories. Some people have claimed actual contact, the abductees. I met probably the most famous abductee of all, and I'll be honest, she did seem a bit bizarre, but then an experience as bizarre as the one she described would probably have a lifelong effect on you and alter how people treat you and how you react to it. It actually is crazier and very arrogant to think that we are the only intelligent beings in the vastness of the universe than to believe we have been visited by other intelligent beings.
 
Of course this is just your own personal theory on the matter. No one has been able to crack the nut of the unexplained phenomena. Even in this thread we've seen an assortment of theories. Some people have claimed actual contact, the abductees. I met probably the most famous abductee of all, and I'll be honest, she did seem a bit bizarre, but then an experience as bizarre as the one she described would probably have a lifelong effect on you and alter how people treat you and how you react to it. It actually is crazier and very arrogant to think that we are the only intelligent beings in the vastness of the universe than to believe we have been visited by other intelligent beings.
I agree that they are both pretty arrogant beliefs. I'm fairly confident there's intelligent life out there, but the universe is an awfully big place, and frankly we're not worth the trip.
 
In WWII, unidentified aerial vehicles were frequently encountered by pilots in the European theater. They became known as Foo Fighters, and yes, the band by that name derives its name from those anomalous aerial phenomena. The father in law of one of my close friends was one such American pilot. When all this **** started hitting the fan beginning with the New York Times report in December, 2017, he got such a kick out of it, saying "this is old hat. We were seeing them on our bombing missions all the time."

I also had the pleasure of getting to know a guy who was an enlisted man at the Roswell Army Air Base in 1947, when the now famous Roswell event allegedly occurred. Some of the guys in his barracks took part in the cleanup of the debris field, and one of them smuggled into the barracks some of the "foil material" that puzzled those who saw it. It resembled metal foil, but the guys could not cut it, burn it, and when it was rolled into a ball, it always unfurled to its original shape with no visible creases.

Of course, this is as anecdotal as it gets, evidence of nothing conclusive at all. But, as someone who had been interested in the phenomenon for my entire life, it was a honor to be able to say I knew this man, and had heard a first hand account from an iconic mythic event of the space age. He also told me that shortly thereafter, the enlisted men at Roswell were assembled and told they should not speak of the incident at all. We put him in touch with the late Stanton Friedman, so his testimony could become a part of the public record.

Instead of saying that what I know about astronomy, and physics, and the improbability of visitors from another world paying any attention to Earth, makes all this quite highly, highly improbable, I say, well, these experiences and sightings of truly anomalous things do happen. Deal with it. It may be impossible, but if it happens, freely speculate about possible explanations. It won't hurt at all. You'll never prove a thing, and never convince a skeptic that the subject has any value at all, but you only have to please yourself. It has truly been as entertaining and mind stretching a subject that I have ever tackled.

And tackle it I have at times. Long before sleep paralysis became a leading theory for what so-called alien abductions actually represented, my own life long experience with sleep paralysis had led me to conclude there simply had to be a relationship between the two phenomenon. The hallucinations attendent to sleep paralysis are culturally based. In Scandinavia, the monster associated with sleep paralysis is described as "the old hag phenomenon", a witch of sorts. It seems quite possible that in our space age, the old hag has become the slant eyed "greys" of abduction lore.

George Knapp of KLAS, Las Vegas, interviews Luis Elizondo, and also discusses the confidential Pentagon report(I posted a link to the complete report earlier in this thread)he obtained from a source in Washington D.C.:



And Tucker Carlson, of Fox News, interviews Commander David Fravor, who went on the record in all the interviews that followed publication of the Nimitz incident as being of the opinion that what he saw was "not of this world". The characteristics described in the Pentagon report of the Nimitz incident, and discussed in the previous video, makes it understandable why he might feel that way:

Edit: I posted the incorrect video. Below is Carlson's interview of Fravor. I left the other video below that, since Nick Pope is interesting in his own right.



 
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I agree that they are both pretty arrogant beliefs. I'm fairly confident there's intelligent life out there, but the universe is an awfully big place, and frankly we're not worth the trip.
That could be but if there is a way to travel faster than the speed of life than it would seem not merely possible but very likely that we have been visited. The hallmark of intelligence is curiosity and that curiosity would lead other beings to our planet if the technology permitted this.
 
The most compelling thing to me are the military pilot sightings. They are more regimented and detailed and, I don't know, a little more controlled. So the odds of it being something that regular ordinary folks just got confused by, like the proverbial weather balloon, are far lower than for, say "ordinary" people sightings.
 
That could be but if there is a way to travel faster than the speed of life than it would seem not merely possible but very likely that we have been visited. The hallmark of intelligence is curiosity and that curiosity would lead other beings to our planet if the technology permitted this.
I don't think even FTL travel would make it particularly likely. Like I said, the universe is a pretty ****ing big place containing trillions of star systems and we've only announced ourselves to it within the last century. The odds of an interstellar traveling race discovering us and making the effort to take the trip seems astronomically low given the time frame.
 
So last year I went to Ukraine and hung out with my Russian tutor in Odessa. She's very smart but kind of reserved about her opinions on things. Around the third day she started kind of hinting that she had some "out there" beliefs about what was really going on in the world. She would occassionally ask me if I believed in "a world beyond her own." I kind of thought she was talking about ghosts or other paranormal stuff. I like her and humored her, but had no real interest in the topic. Around the time I was getting ready to leave she very sincerely asked me to read a book about her beliefs called "The Universe and We. (translated)" I had a 12 hour plane flight ahead of me, so I said sure.

Get on the plane, open up the pdf file and "world beyond our own" was very literal. It was all about aliens.

Lots of portions of the book were verifiably false. For example, it claimed that all the astronauts that had visited the moon came back changed and more religious. We can tell this isn't true because, for example, Neil Armstrong was very famously an atheist. There were other similar claims about the various space programs and what they had discovered.

What I actually got from the experience of reading the book was something different: there was a cultural bent to these particular UFO stories that would strike us as somewhat ludicrous but she took totally seriously. There were descriptions in this book of the governing system of the alien race that was watching over us and waiting for mankind to develop to the point that we could take our place among the rest of the galaxy. That governing system sounded suspiciously like the structure of the Supreme Soviet in the 1970s. Of course, the person who wrote the book would have known about that structure. To her, it is a natural way that society would be ordered.

Similarly, the aliens were supposedly interested primarily in an area in and around Luhansk, Ukraine. There's nothing there. There's no obvious thing that's special about it. But, that's really no different than Roswell, New Mexico. To someone from that area, it seems only natural that the aliens would be interested in them. It never seems ludicrous that the things you are familiar with would have some outsize importance or meaning.

Ultimately these beliefs are pretty harmless. The guide to life was pretty standard "treat people well stuff." There's no point in trying to disabuse her of her beliefs. But it make me realize that the belief in these kinds of alien life forms comes from a certain kind of egoism. We desperately WANT to believe that our lives are important enough that something or someone out there would take an interest in them - monitor them from afar - maybe even occasionally intervene for our benefit or to punish the wicked. It's the same forces that make us believe in an active God or even Santa Claus.

So you guys do you. And if you're interested in a pretty attractive Ukrainian who thinks she has psychic abilities and can commune directly with aliens: she's single!
Pics?
 
I believe if we ran into extraterrestrial life it is highly likely we would have no idea what we were looking at.
Duh, everyone would look like us with weird foreheads and ears.
 
Now this is just plain stupid. Technological progress does not happen/has not happened in a vacuum. The technology from the last 50 years came from basic scientific research and other technological development. Speaking as someone who has been directly in the scientific research area for the past 23 years, I know of absolutely no technological developments for which one cannot easily point to a series of incremental steps that directly led to those developments. That's not at all what technological progress would look like if we were getting it from aliens.

There's a lot of really weird and unexplainable technological advancements from ancient civilizations that came from nowhere e.g. the Antikythera Mechanism. Not saying that's from Aliens, but there are some unexplainable things we know of.
 
I agree that they are both pretty arrogant beliefs. I'm fairly confident there's intelligent life out there, but the universe is an awfully big place, and frankly we're not worth the trip.

Why do you think that we're not worth the trip?

I also wouldn't look at space travel in terms of what we know about science and travel. I believe we know very, very little about science. I also feel like people think what we do know as all there is to know.

We're intellectually babies to what we could be.
 
Why do you think that we're not worth the trip?
I think this is answered by this:

We're intellectually babies to what we could be.

An advanced civilization with the ability to travel faster than light may not want to waste their time making a trip to come visit a planet that is not anywhere near their level of sophistication.

Not to mention they'd have no reason to expect a warm welcome, we can't even get our **** together on our own planet.
 
If we're worth the trip why are aliens always hanging out where there aren't any people? It's like going to a singles bar and just sitting in your car drinking some beers you bought at a gas station.
 
If we're worth the trip why are aliens always hanging out where there aren't any people? It's like going to a singles bar and just sitting in your car drinking some beers you bought at a gas station.
Right?! And let's be honest the prime time to make a visit to earth would have been 65+ million years ago. Dinosaurs are much more worthy of a trip than boring old humans.
 
Right?! And let's be honest the prime time to make a visit to earth would have been 65+ million years ago. Dinosaurs are much more worthy of a trip than boring old humans.
Maybe they did. Didn't like those long necked mother ****ers so they extincted their asses

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If we're worth the trip why are aliens always hanging out where there aren't any people? It's like going to a singles bar and just sitting in your car drinking some beers you bought at a gas station.
These places usually have military bases like Dulce, Roswell, Corona, Groom Lake, Great Falls, the list goes on.

Makes sense to me.
 
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