An Alleged 1953 UFO Crash and Burial Near Garrison, Utah
- Thread starter Archie Moses
- Start date
Red
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I ran into the same problem, but used my wife's iPad to read it. Here is the text, minus the photos and videos....
WASHINGTON — The strange objects, one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind, appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds.
“These things would be out there all day,” said Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who has been with the Navy for 10 years, and who reported his sightings to the Pentagon and Congress. “Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”
In late 2014, a Super Hornet pilot had a near collision with one of the objects, and an official mishap report was filed. Some of the incidents were videotaped, including one taken by a plane’s camera in early 2015 that shows an object zooming over the ocean waves as pilots question what they are watching.
“Wow, what is that, man?” one exclaims. “Look at it fly!”
No one in the Defense Department is saying that the objects were extraterrestrial, and experts emphasize that earthly explanations can generally be found for such incidents. Lieutenant Graves and four other Navy pilots, who said in interviews with The New York Times that they saw the objects in 2014 and 2015 in training maneuvers from Virginia to Florida off the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, make no assertions of their provenance.
But the objects have gotten the attention of the Navy, which earlier this year sent out new classified guidance for how to report what the military calls unexplained aerial phenomena, or unidentified flying objects.
Joseph Gradisher, a Navy spokesman, said the new guidance was an update of instructions that went out to the fleet in 2015, after the Roosevelt incidents.
“There were a number of different reports,” he said. Some cases could have been commercial drones, he said, but in other cases “we don’t know who’s doing this, we don’t have enough data to track this. So the intent of the message to the fleet is to provide updated guidance on reporting procedures for suspected intrusions into our airspace.”
The sightings were reported to the Pentagon’s shadowy, little-known Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, which analyzed the radar data, video footage and accounts provided by senior officers from the Roosevelt. Luis Elizondo, a military intelligence official who ran the program until he resigned in 2017, called the sightings “a striking series of incidents.”
The program, which began in 2007 and was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time, was officially shut down in 2012 when the money dried up, according to the Pentagon. But the Navy recently said it currently investigates military reports of U.F.O.s, and Mr. Elizondo and other participants say the program — parts of it remain classified — has continued in other forms. The program has also studied video that shows a whitish oval object described as a giant Tic Tac, about the size of a commercial plane, encountered by two Navy fighter jets off the coast of San Diego in 2004.
Leon Golub, a senior astrophysicist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, said the possibility of an extraterrestrial cause “is so unlikely that it competes with many other low-probability but more mundane explanations.” He added that “there are so many other possibilities — bugs in the code for the imaging and display systems, atmospheric effects and reflections, neurological overload from multiple inputs during high-speed flight.”
Lieutenant Graves still cannot explain what he saw. In the summer of 2014, he and Lt. Danny Accoin, another Super Hornet pilot, were part of a squadron, the VFA-11 “Red Rippers” out of Naval Air Station Oceana, Va., that was training for a deployment to the Persian Gulf.
Lieutenants Graves and Accoin spoke on the record to The Times about the objects. Three other pilots in the squadron also spoke to The Times about the objects but declined to be named.
Lieutenants Graves and Accoin, along with former American intelligence officials, appear in a six-part History Channel series, “Unidentified: Inside America’s U.F.O. Investigation,” to air beginning Friday. The Times conducted separate interviews with key participants.
The pilots began noticing the objects after their 1980s-era radar was upgraded to a more advanced system. As one fighter jet after another got the new radar, pilots began picking up the objects, but ignoring what they thought were false radar tracks.
“People have seen strange stuff in military aircraft for decades,” Lieutenant Graves said. “We’re doing this very complex mission, to go from 30,000 feet, diving down. It would be a pretty big deal to have something up there.”
But he said the objects persisted, showing up at 30,000 feet, 20,000 feet, even sea level. They could accelerate, slow down and then hit hypersonic speeds.
Lieutenant Accoin said he interacted twice with the objects. The first time, after picking up the object on his radar, he set his plane to merge with it, flying 1,000 feet below it. He said he should have been able to see it with his helmet camera, but could not, even though his radar told him it was there.
A few days later, Lieutenant Accoin said a training missile on his jet locked on the object and his infrared camera picked it up as well. “I knew I had it, I knew it was not a false hit,” he said. But still, “I could not pick it up visually.”
At this point the pilots said they speculated that the objects were part of some classified and extremely advanced drone program.
But then pilots began seeing the objects. In late 2014, Lieutenant Graves said he was back at base in Virginia Beach when he encountered a squadron mate just back from a mission “with a look of shock on his face.”
He said he was stunned to hear the pilot’s words. “I almost hit one of those things,” the pilot told Lieutenant Graves.
The pilot and his wingman were flying in tandem about 100 feet apart over the Atlantic east of Virginia Beach when something flew between them, right past the cockpit. It looked to the pilot, Lieutenant Graves said, like a sphere encasing a cube.
The incident so spooked the squadron that an aviation flight safety report was filed, Lieutenant Graves said.
The near miss, he and other pilots interviewed said, angered the squadron, and convinced them that the objects were not part of a classified drone program. Government officials would know fighter pilots were training in the area, they reasoned, and would not send drones to get in the way.
“It turned from a potentially classified drone program to a safety issue,” Lieutenant Graves said. “It was going to be a matter of time before someone had a midair” collision.
What was strange, the pilots said, was that the video showed objects accelerating to hypersonic speed, making sudden stops and instantaneous turns — something beyond the physical limits of a human crew.
“Speed doesn’t kill you,” Lieutenant Graves said. “Stopping does. Or acceleration.”
Asked what they thought the objects were, the pilots refused to speculate.
“We have helicopters that can hover,” Lieutenant Graves said. “We have aircraft that can fly at 30,000 feet and right at the surface.” But “combine all that in one vehicle of some type with no jet engine, no exhaust plume.”
Lieutenant Accoin said only that “we’re here to do a job, with excellence, not make up myths.”
In March 2015 the Roosevelt left the coast of Florida and headed to the Persian Gulf as part of the American-led mission fighting the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. The same pilots who were interacting with the strange objects off the East Coast were soon doing bombing missions over Iraq and Syria.
The incidents tapered off after they left the United States, the pilots said.
Can't believe you guys have done this thread without me.
Used to be I had a little truck with an AM radio that could only get KFI at night, so I listened to Coast to Coast a lot. About 2006 there was the guy telling about the "Garrison" site. I went there and stomped around.
Very interesting. There's a water trough there, and the cows hang out there a lot. And poop a lot.
I learned that it's more important to see the black cows on the black road in the black night.
I checked out all the alleged "facts" aired on that program. Well, what do I know. What tools do I have. If you drive a truck out on the dry lake, your tracks will be there until the next really wet year, like this year. It's clay. Not far from Sevier Lake where silly people get stuck in the salt mud for doing stuff like that. You have to pay a lot to get someone to go out and pull your truck back to "shore".
Baker, NV is a sort of hippie commune. Mt. Wheeler has status in legend for being a sort of mystic mountain. There's more lost Spanish treasure in that area than a thousand Spaniards could have buried, but no damn UFO.
Used to be I had a little truck with an AM radio that could only get KFI at night, so I listened to Coast to Coast a lot. About 2006 there was the guy telling about the "Garrison" site. I went there and stomped around.
Very interesting. There's a water trough there, and the cows hang out there a lot. And poop a lot.
I learned that it's more important to see the black cows on the black road in the black night.
I checked out all the alleged "facts" aired on that program. Well, what do I know. What tools do I have. If you drive a truck out on the dry lake, your tracks will be there until the next really wet year, like this year. It's clay. Not far from Sevier Lake where silly people get stuck in the salt mud for doing stuff like that. You have to pay a lot to get someone to go out and pull your truck back to "shore".
Baker, NV is a sort of hippie commune. Mt. Wheeler has status in legend for being a sort of mystic mountain. There's more lost Spanish treasure in that area than a thousand Spaniards could have buried, but no damn UFO.
Getting Traded
Banned
I am a skeptic when it is anything created by humans, but when it comes to unfathomable intricasies of the universe, I leave all to chance. To doubt possibilities that could exist means you arrogantly assume you are omniscient. I'm not, so I do believe in the possibility of contact with intelligent life out from somewhere in the vastness of creation.
Interesting take, especially coming from you. I am simply retelling what was told to me, and I happen to believe the gentleman who told me. This wasn’t some nut job co-worker, or that “one guy” that we all know (Archie Moses) — this guy is well educated, a literal genius, wealthy beyond what I can comprehend, and a damn good guy who served his country. I couldn’t give two turds if you believe it or not, but...
As far as you know, right? I’m not doubting or calling your experience into question, but rather, just hoping to clarify your assumption.
Again, as far as you know, correct? I mean, just going off of the two things I mentioned, (super tread tires that could get 100k miles and hybrid technology) and your bold assertion, I can only surmise that you’ve spent a decent amount of time studying, researching, developing, etc. those two things in order to sound so confident.
Dude, you’ve been playing ping pong at firesides and teaching school for how many of those 23 years? I admire you, your profession, your intelligence, etc., but in my opinion, you are far from an expert on this matter, and thus, sound like a know it all tool who lost a few too many D&D games to the neighbor girl which caused your imagination to go right down the *****er. Let me put it another way: I’ve been in the fishing industry for the majority of my life - over 30 years. I’ve fished on the FLW Tour, I’ve been sponsored by Wal-Mart, I was in the college bass fishing World Series, and I can whole heartedly say, with zero reservation, that I’ve caught more fish than this entire board combined. Maybe ten fold. Do you know what though? I lose more tournaments than I win. I have plenty of days that I get skunked. Why? Because I didn’t know some minor detail like color, water temp, depth, time, size, etc. and I was just flat out wrong. I am an expert at what I do, but I also know there are a billion things I could still learn and that I don’t know. Just like you, with your vast knowledge of how advancement works (which is pretty laughable, really) probably know a crap load about how it works in your little corner of the lab, and are also probably pretty ignorant when it comes to other variables/factors — just like I, or any other expert is.
And now you’re asserting that you know what progress with aliens tech would look like... again, because of your vast experience in the field?
Unless "they" didn't want us to know we were getting the technology from aliens and so "they" only released the technology incrementally
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
I see your tongue smashed into your cheek, but just humor me for a second... What would’ve happened in the 70’s if all of a sudden every auto manufacturer released hybrid cars at once? You don’t think that Big Oil would take a massive blow? Maybe big enough to sink the US into an economic meltdown? Maybe not, but then tell me, why has it taken 20 years for hybrid tech to come to market? Toyota was pretty much the first major company to do it, and by all accounts, it’s been a major success for them. Pretty much everyone is on board now, but DECADES behind the competition. Show me another major industry that works like that... Yes, I’m talking out of my ***, but, you know, maybe I’m not.
Any industry where patents are applied and protected, and there are a limited numbers of ways to accomplish a task. Pharmaceuticals, for example.
Hybrid vehicle technology isn't particularly impressive IMHO. And it is not in the running to be the new standard in how we power our vehicles going forward. If hybrid technology is an example of how aliens are boosting our technology I think we'll be fine on our own.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
You know what else is in Great Falls?
An Air Force Base.
Air Force, isolated area...it doesn't take a genius to put two and two together regarding seeing weird things going on.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Your correlation here isn't logical.
Rural military base + unexplained sightings /=/ aliens.
More likely, is the simple answer. Technology that most people wouldn't recognize, or ID. Boring, yeah, but much more logical.
We didn't build military bases around alien sightings, I'll tell you that much.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
For sure, man. My OP post is about a crash just Southwest of the Dugway Proving Grounds.
It also doesn't take a genius to realize that UFOs are witnessed around and not air around military bases.
That said, it takes a moron with an ego to deny the UFO phenomenon or think all sightings are either false or have logical explanations.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
Most things about UFOs and aliens don't make logical sense.
I do think many sightings around military bases are just military operations.
If aliens are in fact visiting earth in UFOs, would it not be logical or strategic for them to check out possible threats? I think so.
Again, it makes sense to me.
Red
Well-Known Member
I would be interested to know if the performance described by some of these pilots is something we, the United States, or any other nation, possesses. Assuming they were not in fact hallucinating, which the video record, and radar record, would suggest they were not.
Commander Fravor said the ~40 foot "tic-tac", could stop instantaneously and reverse direction instantaneously. He described it as acting like a ping-pong ball in that respect. Some of the pilots operating off the Atlantic coast noted that behavior occurring at hypersonic speeds. Do we have anything that can attain such speeds, with no visible propulsion, and yet stop and change direction instantaneously?? Not with humans on board I should think. By which, I don't mean aliens on board, but if ours, they must be unmanned. As the Times article above describes, there can't be human beings inside vehicles performing in that fashion.
But, do we, by which I mean any nation, have drones that can do that?? How do you cancel out inertia, and stop and reverse instantaneously at such speeds? I don't know enough to know if what the pilots are describing is beyond known capabilities. Is it?
Commander Fravor thought the performance he witnesssd was so beyond what he could imagine any nation possesing, that he concluded it was not of this world. If one advances this video to the 25:28 minute mark, he explains why he feels that way. Were you to listen to the entire interview, advance to 5:56 mark for the actual start.
Having been interested in the subject my whole life, I know firsthand that there are any number of components of the subject involved, and individuals associated with the subject, that make most scientific minded people run for the hills. The three principle conspiracies associated with it are: 1. We possess crashed saucers and are studying them. Area 51 Nevada is the base most associated with this claim. 2. The American government is actively working with aliens. There is a joint human/alien base located under a mountain in Dulce, NM. 3. Alien abductions are part of a hybrid breeding program. I've never bought the second or third scenario for a second, and I'm really skeptical of the first. As @colton observed, it's hard to maintain conspiracies. I've always thought that if they are unknown physical craft, the government doesn't know anymore then the general public.
One Bob Lazar claimed to have worked at Area 51, and here, KLAS looks back:
It does seem that our military, for some reason(s) is being more open about the subject, and that they too are puzzled by some of the encounters their pilots are reporting. So again, is what is being described remarkably advanced, or is it not? And if human origin is the path of least resistance for their origins, then whose technology is this? This seems like a reasonable question if these "things" keep showing up in our airspace.
The thing is, I can't just listen to Commander Fravor and say "Meh, what do you know?"
Commander Fravor said the ~40 foot "tic-tac", could stop instantaneously and reverse direction instantaneously. He described it as acting like a ping-pong ball in that respect. Some of the pilots operating off the Atlantic coast noted that behavior occurring at hypersonic speeds. Do we have anything that can attain such speeds, with no visible propulsion, and yet stop and change direction instantaneously?? Not with humans on board I should think. By which, I don't mean aliens on board, but if ours, they must be unmanned. As the Times article above describes, there can't be human beings inside vehicles performing in that fashion.
But, do we, by which I mean any nation, have drones that can do that?? How do you cancel out inertia, and stop and reverse instantaneously at such speeds? I don't know enough to know if what the pilots are describing is beyond known capabilities. Is it?
Commander Fravor thought the performance he witnesssd was so beyond what he could imagine any nation possesing, that he concluded it was not of this world. If one advances this video to the 25:28 minute mark, he explains why he feels that way. Were you to listen to the entire interview, advance to 5:56 mark for the actual start.
Having been interested in the subject my whole life, I know firsthand that there are any number of components of the subject involved, and individuals associated with the subject, that make most scientific minded people run for the hills. The three principle conspiracies associated with it are: 1. We possess crashed saucers and are studying them. Area 51 Nevada is the base most associated with this claim. 2. The American government is actively working with aliens. There is a joint human/alien base located under a mountain in Dulce, NM. 3. Alien abductions are part of a hybrid breeding program. I've never bought the second or third scenario for a second, and I'm really skeptical of the first. As @colton observed, it's hard to maintain conspiracies. I've always thought that if they are unknown physical craft, the government doesn't know anymore then the general public.
One Bob Lazar claimed to have worked at Area 51, and here, KLAS looks back:
It does seem that our military, for some reason(s) is being more open about the subject, and that they too are puzzled by some of the encounters their pilots are reporting. So again, is what is being described remarkably advanced, or is it not? And if human origin is the path of least resistance for their origins, then whose technology is this? This seems like a reasonable question if these "things" keep showing up in our airspace.
The thing is, I can't just listen to Commander Fravor and say "Meh, what do you know?"