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An Alleged 1953 UFO Crash and Burial Near Garrison, Utah

Archie Moses said:
Lord Peter Hill-Norton in-chief of the Defense Staff, First Sea Lord, HMS Ark Royal, HMS Decoy

Master Sgt. Dan Morris - US Air Force

Don Phillips USAF and CIA Contractor

Sgt. Clifford Stone - US Army

Paul H Utz - his dad worked at area 51 and became a whistleblower.

Captain Bill Uhouse - Marines

Lieutenant Colonel John Williams

Gary McKinnon - one of the most famous hackers of our time

Donna Hare - NASA Contractor

Astronaut Edgar Mitchell from Apollo 14

Dr. J Allen Hynek - astronomer, professor

Astronaut Gordon Cooper - aerospace engineer, Air Force pilot, astronaut from Project Mercury.


Let's just start with these. I can give you way more names. I want to know why you think they're not credible or how you can invalidate what they've said?


Again, the thing that gets me the most with UFOs and aliens are the countless credible witnesses. I don't know if there's anti gravity or free energy. I do know a lot of credible people say there is. It makes me lol when people say they're "not credible" as if they have a more credible background. :)

https://www.disclosureproject.org/access/es-wit-test-government.htm
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OK, I've spent about 75 minutes on this which is frankly longer than it deserves. In that time I couldn't get through all the names on your list, so I just started at the top and worked my way down. Here's what I found:

Peter Hill-Norton - UFO believer, no claims at all that I could find about antigravity or free energy

Dan Morris - The only quotes from him I could find had their origins with Steven Greer and the Disclosure Project. Heck, I couldn't even verify he was an actual person. But the quotes did reference free energy, so there is that I suppose. I found this bio on him at the disclosure project, "Dan Morris is a retired Air Force career Master Sergeant who was involved in the extraterrestrial projects for many years. After leaving the Air Force, he was recruited into the super-secret National Reconnaissance Organization, or NRO, during which time he worked specifically on extraterrestrial-connected operations. He had a cosmic top-secret clearance (38 levels above top secret) which, he states, no U.S. president, to his knowledge, has ever held." Yeah, 38 levels above top secret, with a higher clearance than U.S. presidents. Yeah, that sounds like a thing.

Don Phillips - I found this speech by him, . He talks about UFOs, so obviously a believer. That video doesn't make any claims about the US having antigravity or free energy technology though. I did find some other quotes attributed to him that reference antigravity, but as with Dan Morris the only sources for these quotes seem to be Steven Greer himself.

Clifford Stone - I found this video of him, . It's an hour long. I watched about 8 minutes, and it only took me that long to find him completely unreliable. He's telling second and third hand accounts, and using phrases like "I have reason to believe" without giving any evidence. My assessment: he is nuts. Definitely not credible.

OK, that's enough of that. All of the people on your list clearly come from this source: https://www.disclosureproject.org/access/es-wit-test-government.htm

And let me be frank: I think Steven Greer is a con man. I do not trust anything at all from that source. I think he has combined statements which are either made by crazy people or are outright fabrications, along with some few quotes from more credible people which aren't nearly as outrageous.

Because I was particularly interested in so-called antigravity technology (since I'm a physicist), I looked at one of the people at random that the page claimed talked about antigravity stuff, namely Bill Uhouse. The quote/bio from the page is: "Bill Uhouse served 10 years in the Marine Corps as a fighter pilot, and four years with the Air Force at Wright-Patterson AFB as a civilian doing flight-testing of exotic experimental aircraft. Later, for the next 30 years, he worked for defense contractors as an engineer of antigravity propulsion systems." OK, so I looked up Uhouse and found this video by him, . I encourage you to watch the video and see if you find that individual to be credible. I do not at all. He's either making crap up or else he's just gone loony. Personally I'm going with fraud. The video actually starts off somewhat OK, with him talking about some things which could be plausible (tunnels for nuclear testing, etc.), but then rapidly goes off the rails. By about 5-7 mins in (I stopped at 7 mins, fwiw, couldn't take it anymore), he is talking about aliens existing at various facilities around the country, that he has met with them personally after going through a "long period of education", and he starts describing various types of alien races and cultures and their interactions. Sorry, I don't find him credible. And of course there is no evidence. Although actually, there could be if it were real... among other things, somewhere in the video he claimed that alien technology was used in the F-117 aircraft (stealth attack aircraft, introduced 1983, retired 2008), with the implication being its propulsion system because it was right after he was talking about flying discs. So gee, there's something that someone could check. I'm sure there were thousands of people, maybe even tens of thousands of people who worked on designing and operating that aircraft line during those years. Too bad none of them ever thought to mention that its propulsion was crazy, like nothing they had ever seen before and completely unrelated to any other propulsion systems that US aircraft had previously used. So again, I don't believe him and have concluded that he was either a fraud or crazy.

Please consider that if you are correct about this, it would require a cover-up FAR exceeding the scope of what some people believe was a cover-up about the Apollo moon landing (and even the scope of that supposed cover-up is way too large to be credible).
 
Archie Moses said:
I don't know if there's anti gravity or free energy.
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Just to reply to this sentence in its own post. You might not know, but I do. There is not.

Btw, how efficient do you believe the federal government is at "regular" things? Think about that, then decide if you really think it's possible that they could be this efficient in covering something like this up.
 
colton said:
Just to reply to this sentence in its own post. You might not know, but I do. There is not.

Btw, how efficient do you believe the federal government is at "regular" things? Think about that, then decide if you really think it's possible that they could be this efficient in covering something like this up.
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Again, I want to make it clear, I'm not an advocate or believer in free energy and or antigravity. I mean, I've read stuff about it and seen different videos of conspiracists talking about it, but I'm no where close to believing those subjects as I am with believing in UFOs and aliens. I remember when I made my post responding to you asking for credible people, I was like, dang, this is a time consuming thing to do to make a dumb point you don't even really care about.

All of the people I named, I read or watched them say something about either free energy or antigravity. I wish I posted all the links, but the one I did covers probably 2/3's of the names I posted. That was the link to the Dusclosure Project. I, too, think Dr. Steven Greer is a fraud and takes advantage of people for money. It's a shame too because he speaks intelligent, has an intelligent background of being a trauma dr, but then says dumb things like the Atacama Skeleton is an alien. There's a reason I didn't list him or Bob Lazar.

It's comforting knowing that you at least took the time to verify each person for yourself. Now, I don't feel like it was a waste of time posting my response.

I guess the point I was making is that many people say that alien conspiracies are complete garbage and baseless, when in fact, there are many people, with credible backgrounds who support such claims. I suppose there are the ones that are a bit looney and distort or exaggerate the truth or make things up. But there are people with credible backgrounds making the statements. Not just some online, flatearther sitting in their basement.

I haven't watched the videos you posted, but plan to when I have some time. It will be interesting to see why you're calling some of them crazy. Are you basing it off of them believing in aliens, UFOs or technology? If so, I guess that's why there's such a divide amongst people who feel strongly there is credible evidence to support such claims or such claims are crazy and obviously a lie.

I don't believe in bigfoot, but it's fascinating that people from all over the world say they've witnessed an upright walking ape. The difference between alien conspiracists and bigfoot conspiracists is their background and credibility of those advocating it. Can we at least agree that there are many people, with credible backgrounds who claim there are UFOs and or aliens?

Lastly, I take your opinion and knowledge over my own 100% of the time when it comes to physics. I know nothing about free energy or antigravity. I like to think I'm open minded enough to look into things, and that doesn't mean I believe them or I'm gullible. I'm always interested in learning things about alien/UFO conspiracists have some interesting things to say. Half the time I roll my eyes and laugh. It's like watching an episode of Ancient Aliens on the History Channel. Half of what is on the show is laughable and a stretch. The other half gets you to think and want to learn answers.
 
Archie Moses said:
I reached my limit of free articles so I couldn't read it. :/

The interesting thing about what the Navy pilots recorded is it's exactly like one Ufologist suggested they fly - belly up.
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Yeah, I ran into the same problem, but used my wife's iPad to read it. Here is the text, minus the photos and videos....

WASHINGTON — The strange objects, one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind, appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds.

“These things would be out there all day,” said Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who has been with the Navy for 10 years, and who reported his sightings to the Pentagon and Congress. “Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”

In late 2014, a Super Hornet pilot had a near collision with one of the objects, and an official mishap report was filed. Some of the incidents were videotaped, including one taken by a plane’s camera in early 2015 that shows an object zooming over the ocean waves as pilots question what they are watching.

“Wow, what is that, man?” one exclaims. “Look at it fly!”

No one in the Defense Department is saying that the objects were extraterrestrial, and experts emphasize that earthly explanations can generally be found for such incidents. Lieutenant Graves and four other Navy pilots, who said in interviews with The New York Times that they saw the objects in 2014 and 2015 in training maneuvers from Virginia to Florida off the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt, make no assertions of their provenance.


But the objects have gotten the attention of the Navy, which earlier this year sent out new classified guidance for how to report what the military calls unexplained aerial phenomena, or unidentified flying objects.


Joseph Gradisher, a Navy spokesman, said the new guidance was an update of instructions that went out to the fleet in 2015, after the Roosevelt incidents.

“There were a number of different reports,” he said. Some cases could have been commercial drones, he said, but in other cases “we don’t know who’s doing this, we don’t have enough data to track this. So the intent of the message to the fleet is to provide updated guidance on reporting procedures for suspected intrusions into our airspace.”

The sightings were reported to the Pentagon’s shadowy, little-known Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, which analyzed the radar data, video footage and accounts provided by senior officers from the Roosevelt. Luis Elizondo, a military intelligence official who ran the program until he resigned in 2017, called the sightings “a striking series of incidents.”

The program, which began in 2007 and was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time, was officially shut down in 2012 when the money dried up, according to the Pentagon. But the Navy recently said it currently investigates military reports of U.F.O.s, and Mr. Elizondo and other participants say the program — parts of it remain classified — has continued in other forms. The program has also studied video that shows a whitish oval object described as a giant Tic Tac, about the size of a commercial plane, encountered by two Navy fighter jets off the coast of San Diego in 2004.


Leon Golub, a senior astrophysicist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, said the possibility of an extraterrestrial cause “is so unlikely that it competes with many other low-probability but more mundane explanations.” He added that “there are so many other possibilities — bugs in the code for the imaging and display systems, atmospheric effects and reflections, neurological overload from multiple inputs during high-speed flight.”

Lieutenant Graves still cannot explain what he saw. In the summer of 2014, he and Lt. Danny Accoin, another Super Hornet pilot, were part of a squadron, the VFA-11 “Red Rippers” out of Naval Air Station Oceana, Va., that was training for a deployment to the Persian Gulf.

Lieutenants Graves and Accoin spoke on the record to The Times about the objects. Three other pilots in the squadron also spoke to The Times about the objects but declined to be named.

Lieutenants Graves and Accoin, along with former American intelligence officials, appear in a six-part History Channel series, “Unidentified: Inside America’s U.F.O. Investigation,” to air beginning Friday. The Times conducted separate interviews with key participants.

The pilots began noticing the objects after their 1980s-era radar was upgraded to a more advanced system. As one fighter jet after another got the new radar, pilots began picking up the objects, but ignoring what they thought were false radar tracks.


“People have seen strange stuff in military aircraft for decades,” Lieutenant Graves said. “We’re doing this very complex mission, to go from 30,000 feet, diving down. It would be a pretty big deal to have something up there.”

But he said the objects persisted, showing up at 30,000 feet, 20,000 feet, even sea level. They could accelerate, slow down and then hit hypersonic speeds.

Lieutenant Accoin said he interacted twice with the objects. The first time, after picking up the object on his radar, he set his plane to merge with it, flying 1,000 feet below it. He said he should have been able to see it with his helmet camera, but could not, even though his radar told him it was there.

A few days later, Lieutenant Accoin said a training missile on his jet locked on the object and his infrared camera picked it up as well. “I knew I had it, I knew it was not a false hit,” he said. But still, “I could not pick it up visually.”

At this point the pilots said they speculated that the objects were part of some classified and extremely advanced drone program.

But then pilots began seeing the objects. In late 2014, Lieutenant Graves said he was back at base in Virginia Beach when he encountered a squadron mate just back from a mission “with a look of shock on his face.”

He said he was stunned to hear the pilot’s words. “I almost hit one of those things,” the pilot told Lieutenant Graves.

The pilot and his wingman were flying in tandem about 100 feet apart over the Atlantic east of Virginia Beach when something flew between them, right past the cockpit. It looked to the pilot, Lieutenant Graves said, like a sphere encasing a cube.

The incident so spooked the squadron that an aviation flight safety report was filed, Lieutenant Graves said.

The near miss, he and other pilots interviewed said, angered the squadron, and convinced them that the objects were not part of a classified drone program. Government officials would know fighter pilots were training in the area, they reasoned, and would not send drones to get in the way.

“It turned from a potentially classified drone program to a safety issue,” Lieutenant Graves said. “It was going to be a matter of time before someone had a midair” collision.

What was strange, the pilots said, was that the video showed objects accelerating to hypersonic speed, making sudden stops and instantaneous turns — something beyond the physical limits of a human crew.

“Speed doesn’t kill you,” Lieutenant Graves said. “Stopping does. Or acceleration.”

Asked what they thought the objects were, the pilots refused to speculate.


“We have helicopters that can hover,” Lieutenant Graves said. “We have aircraft that can fly at 30,000 feet and right at the surface.” But “combine all that in one vehicle of some type with no jet engine, no exhaust plume.”

Lieutenant Accoin said only that “we’re here to do a job, with excellence, not make up myths.”

In March 2015 the Roosevelt left the coast of Florida and headed to the Persian Gulf as part of the American-led mission fighting the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. The same pilots who were interacting with the strange objects off the East Coast were soon doing bombing missions over Iraq and Syria.

The incidents tapered off after they left the United States, the pilots said.
 
Can't believe you guys have done this thread without me.

Used to be I had a little truck with an AM radio that could only get KFI at night, so I listened to Coast to Coast a lot. About 2006 there was the guy telling about the "Garrison" site. I went there and stomped around.

Very interesting. There's a water trough there, and the cows hang out there a lot. And poop a lot.

I learned that it's more important to see the black cows on the black road in the black night.

I checked out all the alleged "facts" aired on that program. Well, what do I know. What tools do I have. If you drive a truck out on the dry lake, your tracks will be there until the next really wet year, like this year. It's clay. Not far from Sevier Lake where silly people get stuck in the salt mud for doing stuff like that. You have to pay a lot to get someone to go out and pull your truck back to "shore".

Baker, NV is a sort of hippie commune. Mt. Wheeler has status in legend for being a sort of mystic mountain. There's more lost Spanish treasure in that area than a thousand Spaniards could have buried, but no damn UFO.
 
I am a skeptic when it is anything created by humans, but when it comes to unfathomable intricasies of the universe, I leave all to chance. To doubt possibilities that could exist means you arrogantly assume you are omniscient. I'm not, so I do believe in the possibility of contact with intelligent life out from somewhere in the vastness of creation.
 
colton said:
Now this is just plain stupid. Technological progress does not happen/has not happened in a vacuum. The technology from the last 50 years came from basic scientific research and other technological development. Speaking as someone who has been directly in the scientific research area for the past 23 years, I know of absolutely no technological developments for which one cannot easily point to a series of incremental steps that directly led to those developments. That's not at all what technological progress would look like if we were getting it from aliens.
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Interesting take, especially coming from you. I am simply retelling what was told to me, and I happen to believe the gentleman who told me. This wasn’t some nut job co-worker, or that “one guy” that we all know (Archie Moses) — this guy is well educated, a literal genius, wealthy beyond what I can comprehend, and a damn good guy who served his country. I couldn’t give two turds if you believe it or not, but...

Now this is just plain stupid. Technological progress does not happen/has not happened in a vacuum.
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As far as you know, right? I’m not doubting or calling your experience into question, but rather, just hoping to clarify your assumption.

The technology from the last 50 years came from basic scientific research and other technological development.
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Again, as far as you know, correct? I mean, just going off of the two things I mentioned, (super tread tires that could get 100k miles and hybrid technology) and your bold assertion, I can only surmise that you’ve spent a decent amount of time studying, researching, developing, etc. those two things in order to sound so confident.

Speaking as someone who has been directly in the scientific research area for the past 23 years, I know of absolutely no technological developments for which one cannot easily point to a series of incremental steps that directly led to those developments.
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Dude, you’ve been playing ping pong at firesides and teaching school for how many of those 23 years? I admire you, your profession, your intelligence, etc., but in my opinion, you are far from an expert on this matter, and thus, sound like a know it all tool who lost a few too many D&D games to the neighbor girl which caused your imagination to go right down the *****er. Let me put it another way: I’ve been in the fishing industry for the majority of my life - over 30 years. I’ve fished on the FLW Tour, I’ve been sponsored by Wal-Mart, I was in the college bass fishing World Series, and I can whole heartedly say, with zero reservation, that I’ve caught more fish than this entire board combined. Maybe ten fold. Do you know what though? I lose more tournaments than I win. I have plenty of days that I get skunked. Why? Because I didn’t know some minor detail like color, water temp, depth, time, size, etc. and I was just flat out wrong. I am an expert at what I do, but I also know there are a billion things I could still learn and that I don’t know. Just like you, with your vast knowledge of how advancement works (which is pretty laughable, really) probably know a crap load about how it works in your little corner of the lab, and are also probably pretty ignorant when it comes to other variables/factors — just like I, or any other expert is.

That's not at all what technological progress would look like if we were getting it from aliens.
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And now you’re asserting that you know what progress with aliens tech would look like... again, because of your vast experience in the field?

fishonjazz said:
Unless "they" didn't want us to know we were getting the technology from aliens and so "they" only released the technology incrementally

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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I see your tongue smashed into your cheek, but just humor me for a second... What would’ve happened in the 70’s if all of a sudden every auto manufacturer released hybrid cars at once? You don’t think that Big Oil would take a massive blow? Maybe big enough to sink the US into an economic meltdown? Maybe not, but then tell me, why has it taken 20 years for hybrid tech to come to market? Toyota was pretty much the first major company to do it, and by all accounts, it’s been a major success for them. Pretty much everyone is on board now, but DECADES behind the competition. Show me another major industry that works like that... Yes, I’m talking out of my ***, but, you know, maybe I’m not.
 
TroutBum said:
Toyota was pretty much the first major company to do it, and by all accounts, it’s been a major success for them. Pretty much everyone is on board now, but DECADES behind the competition. Show me another major industry that works like that... Yes, I’m talking out of my ***, but, you know, maybe I’m not.
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Any industry where patents are applied and protected, and there are a limited numbers of ways to accomplish a task. Pharmaceuticals, for example.
 
Hybrid vehicle technology isn't particularly impressive IMHO. And it is not in the running to be the new standard in how we power our vehicles going forward. If hybrid technology is an example of how aliens are boosting our technology I think we'll be fine on our own.
 
Archie Moses said:
Rosewell - I believe there were more than one craft discovered there too. The more I've researched Rosewell the more convinced I am that there was a UFO crash and the crafts, along with aliens were recovered. There are a lot of credible sources (to me) who witnessed something far different than weather balloons.

I could list a ton of alleged UFO crash recoveries from the Aztec, NM crash (I'm not sold on this) to 1967 Sudan Cube crash to the Russians, but I'm sure some of them are either hoaxes or not as credible. To me though, there are a lot of credible US military officials who's accounts make believing in UFOs well, not all that hard.

I've witnessed a UFO myself that 100% was not of this world (at least to my knowledge.)

Utah has a lot of UFO history if you're interested in learning about. I'm in Great Falls, MT right now and there's been a lot of cool UFO incidents that have happened around here and Helena too. There's just a lot of unexplainable **** that happens regarding UFOs. I believe.

Here's a cool breakdown of a UFO sighting near Beaver, UT.

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You know what else is in Great Falls?

An Air Force Base.

Air Force, isolated area...it doesn't take a genius to put two and two together regarding seeing weird things going on.
 
Archie Moses said:
These places usually have military bases like Dulce, Roswell, Corona, Groom Lake, Great Falls, the list goes on.

Makes sense to me.
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Your correlation here isn't logical.

Rural military base + unexplained sightings /=/ aliens.

More likely, is the simple answer. Technology that most people wouldn't recognize, or ID. Boring, yeah, but much more logical.

We didn't build military bases around alien sightings, I'll tell you that much.
 
RandyForRubio said:
You know what else is in Great Falls?

An Air Force Base.

Air Force, isolated area...it doesn't take a genius to put two and two together regarding seeing weird things going on.
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For sure, man. My OP post is about a crash just Southwest of the Dugway Proving Grounds.

It also doesn't take a genius to realize that UFOs are witnessed around and not air around military bases.

That said, it takes a moron with an ego to deny the UFO phenomenon or think all sightings are either false or have logical explanations.
 
RandyForRubio said:
Your correlation here isn't logical.

Rural military base + unexplained sightings /=/ aliens.

More likely, is the simple answer. Technology that most people wouldn't recognize, or ID. Boring, yeah, but much more logical.

We didn't build military bases around alien sightings, I'll tell you that much.
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Most things about UFOs and aliens don't make logical sense.

I do think many sightings around military bases are just military operations.

If aliens are in fact visiting earth in UFOs, would it not be logical or strategic for them to check out possible threats? I think so.


Again, it makes sense to me.
 
I would be interested to know if the performance described by some of these pilots is something we, the United States, or any other nation, possesses. Assuming they were not in fact hallucinating, which the video record, and radar record, would suggest they were not.

Commander Fravor said the ~40 foot "tic-tac", could stop instantaneously and reverse direction instantaneously. He described it as acting like a ping-pong ball in that respect. Some of the pilots operating off the Atlantic coast noted that behavior occurring at hypersonic speeds. Do we have anything that can attain such speeds, with no visible propulsion, and yet stop and change direction instantaneously?? Not with humans on board I should think. By which, I don't mean aliens on board, but if ours, they must be unmanned. As the Times article above describes, there can't be human beings inside vehicles performing in that fashion.

But, do we, by which I mean any nation, have drones that can do that?? How do you cancel out inertia, and stop and reverse instantaneously at such speeds? I don't know enough to know if what the pilots are describing is beyond known capabilities. Is it?

Commander Fravor thought the performance he witnesssd was so beyond what he could imagine any nation possesing, that he concluded it was not of this world. If one advances this video to the 25:28 minute mark, he explains why he feels that way. Were you to listen to the entire interview, advance to 5:56 mark for the actual start.



Having been interested in the subject my whole life, I know firsthand that there are any number of components of the subject involved, and individuals associated with the subject, that make most scientific minded people run for the hills. The three principle conspiracies associated with it are: 1. We possess crashed saucers and are studying them. Area 51 Nevada is the base most associated with this claim. 2. The American government is actively working with aliens. There is a joint human/alien base located under a mountain in Dulce, NM. 3. Alien abductions are part of a hybrid breeding program. I've never bought the second or third scenario for a second, and I'm really skeptical of the first. As @colton observed, it's hard to maintain conspiracies. I've always thought that if they are unknown physical craft, the government doesn't know anymore then the general public.

One Bob Lazar claimed to have worked at Area 51, and here, KLAS looks back:



It does seem that our military, for some reason(s) is being more open about the subject, and that they too are puzzled by some of the encounters their pilots are reporting. So again, is what is being described remarkably advanced, or is it not? And if human origin is the path of least resistance for their origins, then whose technology is this? This seems like a reasonable question if these "things" keep showing up in our airspace.

The thing is, I can't just listen to Commander Fravor and say "Meh, what do you know?"
 
One Brow said:
Any industry where patents are applied and protected, and there are a limited numbers of ways to accomplish a task. Pharmaceuticals, for example.
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Good answer, and I agree. However, the difference here is that big pharm has hundreds, if not thousands of “staple” products, that cover a vast multitude of human/animal maladies. The chances of a single pill/vaccine/treatment coming out that would threaten their entire industry is essentially zilch.

Bulletproof said:
Hybrid vehicle technology isn't particularly impressive IMHO. And it is not in the running to be the new standard in how we power our vehicles going forward. If hybrid technology is an example of how aliens are boosting our technology I think we'll be fine on our own.
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I also agree with this, albeit taken in context. While hybrid tech isn’t anything to even raise an eyebrow at by today’s standards, it was pretty radical in 2000 when the first Prius came out. Imagine if it had come out thirty years earlier.

As for the tech as a whole, here’s one way to look at it, in a nut job sort of way (but hey, that’s what this thread is about, right?) Who’s to say that we’ve got 100% of “Hybrid tech” (whatever that may encompass) right now? Going off the assumption that it came from reverse engineering of some alien tech, and that the gov’t, or powers that be (just roll with it) have been, and will continue to, stagger the release or implementation of said tech, how do we really know if we’ve got the full picture.

Ya, the theory is waaaay out there, but is it that difficult to at least say it’s possible? If a bonafide cure for cancer was released tomorrow, how many Rx companies (the drug makers who supply the chemo, and the thousands of other cancer drugs) bite the dust by the end of the week? If the worlds dependence on oil dropped by 50% over a 6-12 month stretch, how do you think world markets would react? If solar energy replaced electric and gas utilities for 50% of the world over a 6-12 month period, what would happen to the global energy markets?

Hypothetical and silly theories abound, I know, but really, what if? We are in a society where essentially every person over the age of 18 has a smart phone with unbelievable capabilities, but we can’t figure out cancer? We can put the world and all of its knowledge, wireless internet that allows us to communicate instantly around the globe, and a lightning fast computer that dwarfs what NASA was using 20 years ago in the palm of our hands, yet we can’t seem to figure out clean energy? Fossil fuels? Still? Really?

Sometimes when I see smoke, there’s a fire. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, then it’s probably not a goose, even if the mainstream media tells me it is.

I’m not saying that anything in this post is true, and honestly, I don’t believe it is, but I can certainly say it’s possible without much hesitation. It absolutely kills me when anyone says that something is IMPOSSIBLE, but it really grinds my gears when a scientist makes that claim. (Looking at you, Dolton)

Show me a scientist who is 100% certain that something is impossible and I’ll show you a guy who will likely be eating his words in 25-50 years.
 
Oh Lord, really?

Coming soon, threads on Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, astral projection, crystals, QAnon, etc.

It never ceases to amaze me that we're in the 21st Century, with educational attainment at its highest peak in the history of human kind, and there is still no shortage of people who believe in fairy tales.

People will believe literally anything.

Humans as a species are easily duped and easily manipulated.

I'm not saying there's no UFOs or no extra-terrestrials (in fact, I'd bet there are), but the evidence that they have crashed here (and the gov knows about it) or that they are flying around observing us should be pretty damned strong and objectively verifiable before I will believe it.

Bill Nye said it best, "Extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence." Deviate from this standard, and you'll soon be joining the ranks of the cranks, duped, gullible, not very bright, etc. who believe all sorts of silly crap.
 
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TroutBum said:
Good answer, and I agree. However, the difference here is that big pharm has hundreds, if not thousands of “staple” products, that cover a vast multitude of human/animal maladies. The chances of a single pill/vaccine/treatment coming out that would threaten their entire industry is essentially zilch.



I also agree with this, albeit taken in context. While hybrid tech isn’t anything to even raise an eyebrow at by today’s standards, it was pretty radical in 2000 when the first Prius came out. Imagine if it had come out thirty years earlier.

As for the tech as a whole, here’s one way to look at it, in a nut job sort of way (but hey, that’s what this thread is about, right?) Who’s to say that we’ve got 100% of “Hybrid tech” (whatever that may encompass) right now? Going off the assumption that it came from reverse engineering of some alien tech, and that the gov’t, or powers that be (just roll with it) have been, and will continue to, stagger the release or implementation of said tech, how do we really know if we’ve got the full picture.

Ya, the theory is waaaay out there, but is it that difficult to at least say it’s possible? If a bonafide cure for cancer was released tomorrow, how many Rx companies (the drug makers who supply the chemo, and the thousands of other cancer drugs) bite the dust by the end of the week? If the worlds dependence on oil dropped by 50% over a 6-12 month stretch, how do you think world markets would react? If solar energy replaced electric and gas utilities for 50% of the world over a 6-12 month period, what would happen to the global energy markets?

Hypothetical and silly theories abound, I know, but really, what if? We are in a society where essentially every person over the age of 18 has a smart phone with unbelievable capabilities, but we can’t figure out cancer? We can put the world and all of its knowledge, wireless internet that allows us to communicate instantly around the globe, and a lightning fast computer that dwarfs what NASA was using 20 years ago in the palm of our hands, yet we can’t seem to figure out clean energy? Fossil fuels? Still? Really?

Sometimes when I see smoke, there’s a fire. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, then it’s probably not a goose, even if the mainstream media tells me it is.

I’m not saying that anything in this post is true, and honestly, I don’t believe it is, but I can certainly say it’s possible without much hesitation. It absolutely kills me when anyone says that something is IMPOSSIBLE, but it really grinds my gears when a scientist makes that claim. (Looking at you, Dolton)

Show me a scientist who is 100% certain that something is impossible and I’ll show you a guy who will likely be eating his words in 25-50 years.
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I'm not a physical scientist, but I'm 100% certain there's no Loch Ness monster, no Big Foot, no ghosts, no fairies, etc. I'm confident 25-50 years from now the same will be true.

This is a rather broad blanket statement.
 
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