How white liberals view black voters

[Archie Moses]

Again, if I didn't drink then I would never use it. Some people don't drink right? So some people don't really need or use it.
I don't carry it on my person. I rarely ever have it on me. (It's not on me right now. It's never on me at work. Last night I went to a wedding and didn't have my id. Tomorrow I'm going to lagoon and won't have my id. Why carry it on me all the time? I don't ever need it)

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I would think you're a minority of people who don't carry their ID on them.

I carry my ID on me always and know, I probably won't use it. Sometimes, I get asked for an ID to match my credit card. You're legally required to have ID on you if you drive. If you're pulled over and don't have ID, it makes things very difficult. If I die in an accident, mass shooting, etc, I can be identified and my family notified.

I don't think one has to carry their ID with them most of the time, I just think it's smart to. I say this knowing IDs won't be used 99% of the time.

 

[JazzyFresh]

I would think you're a minority of people who don't carry their ID on them.

I carry my ID on me always and know, I probably won't use it. Sometimes, I get asked for an ID to match my credit card. You're legally required to have ID on you if you drive. If you're pulled over and don't have ID, it makes things very difficult. If I die in an accident, mass shooting, etc, I can be identified and my family notified.

I don't think one has to carry their ID with them most of the time, I just think it's smart to. I say this knowing IDs won't be used 99% of the time.

Agree, and truthfully how hard is it? I keep my money, my insurance cards, credit cards, and ID all in one little wallet. It's not like it's an inconvenience and as you say if something bad were to happen I'd like whomever to know where they can start looking for family to notify them.

As far as gaining id, I said it earlier, how amazingly hard is it to get one every 5 or so years? I'm all for making it easier for some but it's not like it's an unreasonable request. If you really can't afford one every once in a great while there's something legitimately wrong with that in itself. Maybe we should focus on that aspect.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I love posts that start with umm. You can’t beat that for condescension.

I went back and read the whole thread. Please quote @One Brow or others saying zero ID, I’m not seeing it.

The arguments I hear all the time are about how the current process needs to be scrapped and made easier and republicans keep changing ID laws making it harder.

I mean no voter ID would mean that any person walks and pulls a lever. Does anyone believe that?

Sorry you are so hurt by "umm." It seemed appropriate to me since your comment said literally the opposite of what I have interpereted some people to say in this very thread. I took your challenge regarding One Brow, hit the link to a previous page in this discussion, and the very first comment said this:

Voter impersonation accounts for something like 0.0001% of the vote, at most. If voter ID disenfranchises even one person, it is a worse problem than than voter impersonation.

Now I assume he, or someone else on his behalf, is going to claim that his post is somehow not suggesting that voter ID should not be required at all, but to me it appears to say precisely that. Their may be other posts from him or others in this thread that say the same thing even more clearly but I see no reason to bother looking for them. I have also heard commentators on CNN suggest that there should be no ID requirement at all. It doesn't even make sense to me why we are having this discussion about whether ID should be required if what the people claiming it should not be required are really saying is that ID should be easier to obtain.

 

[lauriandres]

Any responsible adult should have and carry an ID at all possible times. To me, this is common sense and easy to understand as to why.

Some people may not use their ID as much as others, but it is still just as important to them.

I guess I'm not following the reasons as to why they're not needed or too hard to obtain.

Can you show me the equivalent link regarding documents according to US laws?
https://www.politsei.ee/en/instructions/applying-for-an-id-card-for-an-adult
Is it really possible and legal to live entire life in the USA without the main ID or registration document?
For example, in Estonia and probably everywhere in EU:
1. A child is born.
2. At the hospital a unique ID code is assigned, if you a have girl born in this century, a la 01. february, 2015, the code is 61502010245 (last four digits are control sum) - i do not know what happens should we have more than 9999 babies born in the same day .
3. You have 30 days to figure out a name you want a register it in local family agency.
4. No later than your child is 15 years old - you must get ID card for him/her. Passport is optional.

And it is really easy even for those who have minimum wage.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Again, if I didn't drink then I would never use it. Some people don't drink right? So some people don't really need or use it.
I don't carry it on my person. I rarely ever have it on me. (It's not on me right now. It's never on me at work. Last night I went to a wedding and didn't have my id. Tomorrow I'm going to lagoon and won't have my id. Why carry it on me all the time? I don't ever need it)

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Do you carry it with you when you drive? You should because if you get pulled over, become involved in an accident etc. you are certainly going to wish you had it, and you will probably pay a price for not having it with you. I think it is pretty responsible and reasonable to own and to carry ID.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

You said they are arguing for no id and then listed one brow. One brow isn't a they, he is a he.

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Someone said "Nobody is suggesting that ID shouldn't be required to vote." I listed someone off the top of my head who was suggesting exactly that. If I said "they" then maybe I overstated in this instance (though I have definitely heard more people make the suggestion when this sort of a discussion comes up so my overstatement is certainly not egregious).

 

[JazzyFresh]

So people are too poor to get ID's but how do you get a job without proper identification?

 

[fishonjazz]

Do you carry it with you when you drive? You should because if you get pulled over, become involved in an accident etc. you are certainly going to wish you had it, and you will probably pay a price for not having it with you. I think it is pretty responsible and reasonable to own and to carry ID.

It's in my truck (with my fishing license) so it's there when I'm driving. Otherwise I never have it.

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[fishonjazz]

So people are too poor to get ID's but how do you get a job without proper identification?

Did you know that many companies hire illegal immigrants?

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[JazzyFresh]

Did you know that many companies hire illegal immigrants?

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I'm not talking about illegals. Illegals can't vote anyways so it really a moot point of what's being talked about.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm not talking about illegals. Illegals can't vote anyways so it really a moot point of what's being talked about.

Oh was just answering the question you asked.
Which was how can someone get a job without ID? It happens, they do.

I would assume that non illegals without ID get a job the same way illegals without id do

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[JazzyFresh]

Oh was just answering the question you asked.
Which was how can someone get a job without ID? It happens, they do.

I would assume that non illegals without ID get a job the same way illegals without id do

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Ok so if someone is working it's plenty plausible to think they can afford to get an ID of some sort or afford proper documentation. It's not like it needs to be renewed every year. According to Google a new birth certificate is $15-$30 and a new social security card is free. That's affordable to anybody over a span of a lifetime.

My point is that someone posted that people can't afford it and I find that extremely hard to believe. Some people maybe, but that number would be insanely minimal. Again, I'd be fine if they were free but I'm rebutting that point. $30 for a 5 year licence or $60 for a 5 year licence and new birth certificate is $6-$12 a year.

 

[silesian]

Sorry you are so hurt by "umm."

Not hurt, just pointing out it is kinda rude.

 

[One Brow]

Now I assume he, or someone else on his behalf, is going to claim that his post is somehow not suggesting that voter ID should not be required at all, but to me it appears to say precisely that. Their may be other posts from him or others in this thread that say the same thing even more clearly but I see no reason to bother looking for them. I have also heard commentators on CNN suggest that there should be no ID requirement at all. It doesn't even make sense to me why we are having this discussion about whether ID should be required if what the people claiming it should not be required are really saying is that ID should be easier to obtain.

In my last election, I was mailed a non-photo-ID that I brought to the polling place, and I was asked to sign by my name. Both are forms of ID, and neither seems particularly likely to disenfranchise someone.

That said, I'm not opposed to verbal-ID (as in, I identify who I am and my address, and the poll worker checks the list), which you might think of as no-ID.

 

[silesian]

My point is that someone posted that people can't afford it and I find that extremely hard to believe. Some people maybe, but that number would be insanely minimal. Again, I'd be fine if they were free but I'm rebutting that point. $30 for a 5 year licence or $60 for a 5 year licence and new birth certificate is $6-$12 a year.

Very easy to believe. I'm not an expert, but from Wikipedia (Harvard study) "the expenses for documentation, travel, and waiting time [for obtaining voter identification cards] are significant—especially for minority group and low-income voters—typically ranging from about $75 to $175. When legal fees are added to these numbers, the costs range as high as $1,500." So you are making $5 an hour and trying to feed your family, you need to work 25 + hours for the privilege to vote. Most of us here, this is not a lot of money, but that's not the point.

 

[fishonjazz]

Ok so if someone is working it's plenty plausible to think they can afford to get an ID of some sort or afford proper documentation. It's not like it needs to be renewed every year. According to Google a new birth certificate is $15-$30 and a new social security card is free. That's affordable to anybody over a span of a lifetime.

My point is that someone posted that people can't afford it and I find that extremely hard to believe. Some people maybe, but that number would be insanely minimal. Again, I'd be fine if they were free but I'm rebutting that point. $30 for a 5 year licence or $60 for a 5 year licence and new birth certificate is $6-$12 a year.

You didn't ask if they were affordable in the posts I quoted. Just if people could get hired without ID. That's what I was discussing.

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[fishonjazz]

Ok so if someone is working it's plenty plausible to think they can afford to get an ID of some sort or afford proper documentation. It's not like it needs to be renewed every year. According to Google a new birth certificate is $15-$30 and a new social security card is free. That's affordable to anybody over a span of a lifetime.

My point is that someone posted that people can't afford it and I find that extremely hard to believe. Some people maybe, but that number would be insanely minimal. Again, I'd be fine if they were free but I'm rebutting that point. $30 for a 5 year licence or $60 for a 5 year licence and new birth certificate is $6-$12 a year.

Very easy to believe. I'm not an expert, but from Wikipedia (Harvard study) "the expenses for documentation, travel, and waiting time [for obtaining voter identification cards] are significant—especially for minority group and low-income voters—typically ranging from about $75 to $175. When legal fees are added to these numbers, the costs range as high as $1,500." So you are making $5 an hour and trying to feed your family, you need to work 25 + hours for the privilege to vote. Most of us here, this is not a lot of money, but that's not the point.

I don't even go to the doctor when I should cause I don't want to pay the $20 co-pays lol.

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[One Brow]

Hysterical to think that you actually believe it would be possible to know this.

It's been studied multiple times, by multiple people. If you think you have a source with a larger, more reliable number, I'll read it.

 

[silesian]

Now I assume he, or someone else on his behalf, is going to claim that his post is somehow not suggesting that voter ID should not be required at all, but to me it appears to say precisely that. Their may be other posts from him or others in this thread that say the same thing even more clearly but I see no reason to bother looking for them. I have also heard commentators on CNN suggest that there should be no ID requirement at all. It doesn't even make sense to me why we are having this discussion about whether ID should be required if what the people claiming it should not be required are really saying is that ID should be easier to obtain.

How many people advocate for being able to vote by showing up and having a pulse? I think this is a tiny tiny minority of people, if that. The problems are too few to begin listing.

The "zero ID" argument is a straw man, in my opinion.

 

[One Brow]

Voting isn't a right of every citizen. Felons can't vote for example.

Any right is limited and can be removed upon cause. Doesn't mean they don't have the right fundamentally, just that it is suspended. Perhaps that's too fine a point, though.