How white liberals view black voters

[silesian]

Sorry you are so hurt by "umm."

Not hurt, just pointing out it is kinda rude.

 

[One Brow]

Now I assume he, or someone else on his behalf, is going to claim that his post is somehow not suggesting that voter ID should not be required at all, but to me it appears to say precisely that. Their may be other posts from him or others in this thread that say the same thing even more clearly but I see no reason to bother looking for them. I have also heard commentators on CNN suggest that there should be no ID requirement at all. It doesn't even make sense to me why we are having this discussion about whether ID should be required if what the people claiming it should not be required are really saying is that ID should be easier to obtain.

In my last election, I was mailed a non-photo-ID that I brought to the polling place, and I was asked to sign by my name. Both are forms of ID, and neither seems particularly likely to disenfranchise someone.

That said, I'm not opposed to verbal-ID (as in, I identify who I am and my address, and the poll worker checks the list), which you might think of as no-ID.

 

[silesian]

My point is that someone posted that people can't afford it and I find that extremely hard to believe. Some people maybe, but that number would be insanely minimal. Again, I'd be fine if they were free but I'm rebutting that point. $30 for a 5 year licence or $60 for a 5 year licence and new birth certificate is $6-$12 a year.

Very easy to believe. I'm not an expert, but from Wikipedia (Harvard study) "the expenses for documentation, travel, and waiting time [for obtaining voter identification cards] are significant—especially for minority group and low-income voters—typically ranging from about $75 to $175. When legal fees are added to these numbers, the costs range as high as $1,500." So you are making $5 an hour and trying to feed your family, you need to work 25 + hours for the privilege to vote. Most of us here, this is not a lot of money, but that's not the point.

 

[fishonjazz]

Ok so if someone is working it's plenty plausible to think they can afford to get an ID of some sort or afford proper documentation. It's not like it needs to be renewed every year. According to Google a new birth certificate is $15-$30 and a new social security card is free. That's affordable to anybody over a span of a lifetime.

My point is that someone posted that people can't afford it and I find that extremely hard to believe. Some people maybe, but that number would be insanely minimal. Again, I'd be fine if they were free but I'm rebutting that point. $30 for a 5 year licence or $60 for a 5 year licence and new birth certificate is $6-$12 a year.

You didn't ask if they were affordable in the posts I quoted. Just if people could get hired without ID. That's what I was discussing.

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[fishonjazz]

Ok so if someone is working it's plenty plausible to think they can afford to get an ID of some sort or afford proper documentation. It's not like it needs to be renewed every year. According to Google a new birth certificate is $15-$30 and a new social security card is free. That's affordable to anybody over a span of a lifetime.

My point is that someone posted that people can't afford it and I find that extremely hard to believe. Some people maybe, but that number would be insanely minimal. Again, I'd be fine if they were free but I'm rebutting that point. $30 for a 5 year licence or $60 for a 5 year licence and new birth certificate is $6-$12 a year.

Very easy to believe. I'm not an expert, but from Wikipedia (Harvard study) "the expenses for documentation, travel, and waiting time [for obtaining voter identification cards] are significant—especially for minority group and low-income voters—typically ranging from about $75 to $175. When legal fees are added to these numbers, the costs range as high as $1,500." So you are making $5 an hour and trying to feed your family, you need to work 25 + hours for the privilege to vote. Most of us here, this is not a lot of money, but that's not the point.

I don't even go to the doctor when I should cause I don't want to pay the $20 co-pays lol.

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[One Brow]

Hysterical to think that you actually believe it would be possible to know this.

It's been studied multiple times, by multiple people. If you think you have a source with a larger, more reliable number, I'll read it.

 

[silesian]

Now I assume he, or someone else on his behalf, is going to claim that his post is somehow not suggesting that voter ID should not be required at all, but to me it appears to say precisely that. Their may be other posts from him or others in this thread that say the same thing even more clearly but I see no reason to bother looking for them. I have also heard commentators on CNN suggest that there should be no ID requirement at all. It doesn't even make sense to me why we are having this discussion about whether ID should be required if what the people claiming it should not be required are really saying is that ID should be easier to obtain.

How many people advocate for being able to vote by showing up and having a pulse? I think this is a tiny tiny minority of people, if that. The problems are too few to begin listing.

The "zero ID" argument is a straw man, in my opinion.

 

[One Brow]

Voting isn't a right of every citizen. Felons can't vote for example.

Any right is limited and can be removed upon cause. Doesn't mean they don't have the right fundamentally, just that it is suspended. Perhaps that's too fine a point, though.

 

[One Brow]

So where do you draw the line? Child rapist? People who commit hate crimes? People with gun charges?

They still have to vote for candidates/referenda. Anyone who's not incarcerated should be able to vote, and I think the incarcerated, as well.

 

[LogGrad98]

Any right is limited and can be removed upon cause. Doesn't mean they don't have the right fundamentally, just that it is suspended. Perhaps that's too fine a point, though.

Yeah that is too fine a point. In that vein you could argue everyone has every right everywhere, they are just suppressed more in some places than in others. Then the dialogue has no weight.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

It's in my truck (with my fishing license) so it's there when I'm driving. Otherwise I never have it.

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In other words you always have it nearby and you definitely know where it is, just like you should and just like almost everyone else does. Not even sure why we're having this discussion.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

It's been studied multiple times, by multiple people. If you think you have a source with a larger, more reliable number, I'll read it.

Here is my study:
If you eliminate barriers to cheating then a larger percentage of the population tends to cheat. Witness the looting that occurs during power outages for example. There is ample video evidence of this phenomena.

For that reason it is not difficult to conclude that if voting is easily manipulated that eventually candidates who are willing to sanction that type of manipulation will emerge. ID is a very reasonable measure to help make this sort of manipulation much more unlikely, especially since having an ID is a useful and ordinary thing that every adult ought to do.