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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

The Thriller said:
I really hope the phone call transcript isn’t the Barr memo 2.0. I can see trump releasing this thing tomorrow and defuse the momentum towards impeachment. The call transcript is likely to be not as damaging as the entire whistleblower complaint. Congress deserves to receive the entire whistleblower complaint. Not some lame *** call transcript. Trump is trying to save his own hide by throwing the call transcript and distract from the greater issue; the whistleblower complaint. Nixon to an extent tried this as well. Don’t fall for it
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It's not like we can trust president sharpie to release an accurate transcript of the call as well. Didn't he do this already with a Putin call?

Good news is the whistle-blower is ready to meet with the House intelligence committee this week.

 
babe said:
Asking me for proof is ludicrous. Maybe if I was following the perp around dusting fingerprints and getting footprint casts every step of the way.... oh wait... with brainwave analyzer gizmo, an extremely advanced lie detector thing, and enough data-harvesting on his cell and PC and eye movements, etc etc etc.

But hey, have you heard of "common sense"?
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It's ludicrous to ask for proof. Yet you defend republicans with less proof with way more vigor, and persecute democrats like a honey badger with less.

Welcome back to "It's not going to matter, he's not going to be the candidate." Please drive through.
 
The Thriller said:
I really hope the phone call transcript isn’t the Barr memo 2.0. I can see trump releasing this thing tomorrow and defuse the momentum towards impeachment. The call transcript is likely to be not as damaging as the entire whistleblower complaint. Congress deserves to receive the entire whistleblower complaint. Not some lame *** call transcript. Trump is trying to save his own hide by throwing the call transcript and distract from the greater issue; the whistleblower complaint. Nixon to an extent tried this as well. Don’t fall for it
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It kind of feels like Trump mistimed this as well. Releasing a transcript that is sure to be far from damning may have enabled him to buy more time and given Democrats on the fence on impeachment an out.

As it is now though, they've called for impeachment inquiries to begin, and that doesn't seem to me to be a battle you start if you aren't going to go full steam ahead.
 
Zombie said:
I mean, she's clearly passionate about the issue, so of course she would welcome the attention.

I think it's pretty disgusting how many adults (who should know better) have attacked her. Saying she's a Nazi, or mentally ill. It's possibly to disagree with a child and not stoop so low.

As for her dramatics, well the cold hard facts haven't managed to make a difference in the world's response to this existential crisis, so maybe we need someone who is willing to make an emotional appeal.
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A few things.

“Thunberg began suffering from depression as a child, by her own admission, in part because she learned about climate change at age eight,” noted the Washington Examiner piece from late August. “She was later diagnosed with autism and obsessive compulsive disorder and gradually became despondent as she obsessed over her fear of climate change. She developed mutism and an eating disorder so severe that she once went two months without food, and she stopped going to school. Her only sibling, a sister named Beata, also suffers from Asperger’s and OCD, as well as ADHD."

And, did you feel the same way, out of curiosity, when the Covington High School kid was attacked when confronted by the Native American?


The more I read about Thunberg, the more I see how she's coached and taken advantage of. It's sad really.

I'm all for climate change too.
 
sirkickyass said:
So you would agree that Congress is entitled to, and needs to see, the report in question so that they can see the full contents of the allegations and evaluate their merits.

Congrats, you're with US.



I'm going to go through this bit by bit, because everything you've heard is pure spin. Please remember, Ukraine/Russia is the part of the world I've been most interested in studying for a couple of years, and I put enough time into it that it's effectively a part time job.

Important background information:

Victor Yanukovych was the Russian backed president of Ukraine from 2010 to 2014. He's an important figure in the US/Ukrainian relationship for a couple reasons.

1. Paul Manafort worked on Yanukovich's political campaigns, funded largely with the help of Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, including his 2010 Presidential campaign. He did so even though the US government opposed Yanukovich's candidacy - effectively working AGAINST stated US interests in the region. Manafort later was Trump's campaign manager during the critical primary and convention period. (Source: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/28/politics/mueller-search-warrants-manafort/index.html). Manafort was ultimately convicted of crimes related to this work.

2. Yanukoych's work as President of Ukraine ultimately led to a revolution in the country in the 2014. I've posted pictures of the Maidan before where the revolution happened. The country largely revolted over Yanukovych corruptly turning his back on further integration with the West through a cooperation agreement with the European Union. Yanukovych did so because he was personally profiting by stronger relationships with Europe. He committed treason against his country as president by putting his own financial interests ahead of Ukraine's. Yanukovych has been in exile in Southern Russia for more than five years and was convicted, in absentia, of treason. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych )


These dates, and names are important because Hunter Biden joined the board of Burisma Holdings, a large oil and gas extraction company in Ukraine, approximately two months after the Euromaidan revolution. Further, Burisma was founded by Mykola Zlochevsky, who was a Yanukovich political ally, to the extent that he served as the minister of ecology and natural resources during the early portions of the Yanukovich administration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykola_Zlochevsky

The investigation into Burisma holdings was tied to Zlochevsky's position as the minister of ecology and natural resources. This is a position that he held from 2010 -2012. Zlochevksy later had a position on the national security council in Ukraine from 2012, until the government collapsed in February 2014. The allegation (probably true) was that Zlochevksy used his position in the government to grant his own companies, including Burisma, licenses that it would not have otherwise gotten. In effect, self-dealing. (Source: https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/trump-whistleblower-scandal-explained-from-ukraine.html) . No one has EVER alleged that any of those activities occurred after Hunter Biden was named to the board of Burisma - a few months after Zlochevsky and Yanukovich fled the country. As a result, it is completely and utterly incorrect to suggest that any prosecutor in Ukraine was ever looking into Hunter Biden personally. The conduct that Burisma was investigated for happened entirely before he was ever involved with the company.

The Prosecutor:

Viktor Shokin is the former general prosecutor of Ukraine, and was appointed in 2015 - some three years after the investigation into Zlovhevsky's activities had been initiated. After the 2014 revolution, the position of general prosecutor turned over several times. Shokin was the third general prosecutor appointed to the position in twelve months. Several allies of the Yanukovych administration remained in various governmental positions and were frustrating investigations into the previous administration by stonewalling and hiding information. Prosecutors had been sabotaging investigations into Zlochevsky's activities since at least 2014, more than a year before Shokin came into office. (Source (Russian language): https://gordonua.com/news/politics/...r_cju1d0zj90sut8gci7ucvnbxaeb9jqfeas8woba4f30 )

Shokin was prosecutor for barely a year and was INTENSELY unpopular in Ukraine, public protests were held demanding his resignation approximately six months before Joe Biden pushed for his firing. (Source: https://www.unian.info/society/1170...nce-demanding-shokins-resignation-photos.html). The irony here is that the complaint was that Shokin was not doing ENOUGH to prosecute old corruption cases. Shokin was not a anti corruption crusader who was looking into the wrong people. In fact, under Shokin's watch, the Ukrainian government agreed to unfreeze $23.5 million worth of property claimed by Zlochevsky. Shokin was a non-functioning officer in a country with deep seated corruption problems who was not actively prosecuting these cases.

There is also no indication that Shokin took any particular interest in the Burisma case until there was an opportunity for reprisal against Joe Biden. The best English language Kyiv newspaper was unable to find any public statements by Shokin about Burisma or Hunter Biden while in office. ( https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/trump-whistleblower-scandal-explained-from-ukraine.html ). As a result, there's literally no reason for anyone to believe that either Joe or Hunter Biden perceived Shokin as a personal threat. For there to be a conflict of interest, they would have to know that Shokin was actually potentially a detriment to their personal fortunes. There is no evidence that this was true.

Feel free to share with all your conservative friends. And I'm willing to answer follow up questions. Reading the GOP story about this whole thing is beyond frustrating if you follow the local news there.
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Just being willing to take an offering like this at face value as "The Truth" is stupid, SKA. Obviously, you have powers of analysis enough to acknowledge that the Russians and Ukranians are very capable spinsters of the highest rank, and that everyone has a point of view, and there is likely bias in a well-constructed story line. Look for the faults in this yourself.

It is just lazy to say everybody is corrupt, and everybody has a point of view as well.

The situation fundamentally has a lot of complexity. Obviously, Putin and Russians generally wanted the Ukraine to be a sort of "protectorate" run by their influenced people, just as any Western interests would want the inside track. The history of Ukraine during Stalin's time is something of an issue. I mean, with Ukranians who want the Russians out, as well as others out. Stalin did a lot of genocide against Ukranians.

But still, with two family sources who have been in the Ukraine in recent years, as you were, certainly you cannot deny the politics in your link here. You are not Ukranian, you are Western, with Western interests and connections.

The revolution, the installation of an essentially fascist government in Ukraine, although outing Putin's man, does no justice to Ukraine. Western operatives orchestrated the removal of Yankovich. A lot of Ukrainians don't like fascists, either.

That Obama and Joe Biden got Hunter into the Burisma company, and that the Bidens got paid personally for the peddled influence, is something even you cannot overlook and keep your street cred.

The fact that Clinton, Obama, and the US liberal establishment favored the fascist takeover of Ukraine is not any kind of feather in the liberal cap.

I don't know enough to specifically debunk a dedicated, fairly well-based account like this in specifics. But it looks to me like Paul Manafort had connections with the socialist outfit run by LaRouche, and that the LaRouche people have had an inside track to Trump as well, and that is how Paul Manafort got his job. Trump took in a broad based tactic to seek support from every kind of anti-Establishment point of view or interest. He sought CFR support as well. He left no Stone unturned, so to speak, in building his campaign. No US conservatives would ever see all those connections. But the fact is the LaRouche organization has had people with connections inside Russia and China for some time, though they are Americans in fact, and nobody's little patsies, and their early coverage of the Ukraine was pro-Russian and anti-British, so they had the sense to see the fascist origins of the Western project to bring the Ukraine into the Western circle.

Amazing that all the investigation into Manafort went nowhere but into tax issue. Strikes a wooden spike into the heart of the DumpTrump movement.

Trumps moves on the Ukraine did not involve any bag man, so you can just go pound sand that Trump is anything like Biden, or that there is anything in it but Trump seeking to exert official US interests, as his administration makes that out, in his use of our tax dollars.

In short, you should think twice here if you intend to turn this on Trump.

But thank you for this and further contributions to this discussion. You are quite correct that this is indeed a frustration because of the political imbecility of uninformed Americans.
 
Archie Moses said:
A few things.

“Thunberg began suffering from depression as a child, by her own admission, in part because she learned about climate change at age eight,” noted the Washington Examiner piece from late August. “She was later diagnosed with autism and obsessive compulsive disorder and gradually became despondent as she obsessed over her fear of climate change. She developed mutism and an eating disorder so severe that she once went two months without food, and she stopped going to school. Her only sibling, a sister named Beata, also suffers from Asperger’s and OCD, as well as ADHD."

And, did you feel the same way, out of curiosity, when the Covington High School kid was attacked when confronted by the Native American?


The more I read about Thunberg, the more I see how she's coached and taken advantage of. It's sad really.

I'm all for climate change too.
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I'm not aware of the Covington High School thing, and none of what you typed supports the idea she's being coached or coerced in some way.
 
And, for the record, folks, so far as I know, SirKickyAss still has me on ignore as a crazed lunatic who believes in the validity of the US Constitution.

Sometimes, brains and skills become the Achilles Heel of dedicated believers in any kind of wonksterism. So sad to see Kicky fall like that.
 
babe said:
And, for the record, folks, so far as I know, SirKickyAss still has me on ignore as a crazed lunatic who believes in the validity of the US Constitution.

Sometimes, brains and skills become the Achilles Heel of dedicated believers in any kind of wonksterism. So sad to see Kicky fall like that.
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So you've got nothing. Figured as much lol.
 
Zombie said:
Go ahead and show me where I said this.

Anyway, it sounds like you are fairly ignorant of Ukraine's recent history, and that of Shokin in particular. This article is a good primer.

https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukraine-top-prosecutor-fired-viktor-shokin/30181445.html
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I figured it was implied by your comment that there has been no evidence of wrongdoing on the part of either Biden. If Trump or any of his associates are ever unwilling to answer one accusation or another people come out of the woodwork saying that their silence on the issue is evidence of their guilt. That doesn't work both ways?
 
Zombie said:
I'm not aware of the Covington High School thing, and none of what you typed supports the idea she's being coached or coerced in some way.
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You couldn't possibly have missed that in the news, unless indeed you are so narrow-sighted as to know nothing but your daily sheet of talking points which you should indeed use for toilet paper on appropriate occasions.
 
In the above, pages, I think SirKickyAss has made the best contributions, though I think differently.... and while Zombie has no idea what he's talking about and doesn't even know when I'm trying to respond to SirKickyAss, it is probably going to be the fact that SirKickyAss will not respond to me, because he put me on ignore. I just want to try to get that point across for Archie and a few others who are actually interested in understanding the issues.
 
Zombie said:
Go ahead and show me where I said this.

Anyway, it sounds like you are fairly ignorant of Ukraine's recent history, and that of Shokin in particular. This article is a good primer.

https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukraine-top-prosecutor-fired-viktor-shokin/30181445.html
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BTW, I was already familiar with this article. I'd be interested to see actual evidence of Shokin's corruption rather than heresay. But as I said before, no matter how corrupt Shokin is, the Biden's have certainly put themselves into a sticky position with regard to the Ukraine. I have yet to see anyone provide evidence that Hunter was providing his client anything other than his father's influence. He apparently has no previous experience in the gas industry, no previous experience in Ukraine, several previous drug related charges, and no willingness to talk to anyone about this situation.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
BTW, I was already familiar with this article. I'd be interested to see actual evidence of Shokin's corruption rather than heresay. But as I said before, no matter how corrupt Shokin is, the Biden's have certainly put themselves into a sticky position with regard to the Ukraine. I have yet to see anyone provide evidence that Hunter was providing his client anything other than his father's influence. He apparently has no previous experience in the gas industry, no previous experience in Ukraine, several previous drug related charges, and no willingness to talk to anyone about this situation.
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How exactly would you prove that?
 
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