Conley irrelevant...

[Kyoto]

you guys are so near-sighted. Conley is here to take us to the next level in the playoffs. Of course we are a good regular season team, with or without him. That's not the point. The point is to have another guy when we are playing the clippers or the lakers in the post season. We're going to need him if we want a chance at making the conference finals. There will come a time when ingles at point forward won't be enough and that's where all the extra firepower comes into play.

This board is full of morons that can't look more than 1 game in the future. Mike Conley coming back is just like having a 10+ winning streak then trading nothing for a top 10 point guard in the league.

These guys are the same people who wanted to get rid of Royce, Niang, and Bradley for nothing at the beginning of the year.

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[jom2003]

you guys are so near-sighted. Conley is here to take us to the next level in the playoffs.

and yeah... argument has been made in that Conley is actually also irrelevant in that regards... the guy basically spent his entire career trying to take the grizz to the next level in the playoffs but never did... if you want "keep trying in the playoffs but keep failing each year" typa experience, then conley is your go-to guy. but weren't we in that state already?

by comparison, Kawhi is a bona-fide superstar, who had championship experience with Finals MVP to his name. now THAT IS the guy who would for sure take you to the next level in playoffs.

 

[jom2003]

by next level you mean championship of course.

if you mean quick bounce from first/second round every year or just barely making to the conference finals(with some luck, like Blazers last season) and quickly exit by getting swept, then maybe.

 

[Spinoza]

I was never a big fan of the Conley trade. though hes a solid player hes not a great defender and for the money he costs jazz could have just kept crowder and someone else and had mitchell run the point.
Its not like Snyder has his PG bring the ball up every play and initiate the offense, we see mitchell bringing the ball up, Ingles can initiate the offense clarkson, Mudiay, why was conley a must to bring in???

Sure i get the floor spacing he brings over a Rubio but if one is going to let rubio go to improve spacing why not just move mitchell over to point where hes a better defender and a better shooter?

I just think the jazzs obsession with trying to acquire conley the last few years was a case of not being able to see the forest through the trees and was unnecessary.

I'm still happy it meant getting rid of Rubio. But yeah, I was never a fan of Conley either and didn't like the idea of him taking the ball out of Mitchell's hands so much. I'm concerned about how well the Jazz are going to play as a unit when he returns. Hopefully he plays much, much better than he did before his injury.

 

[Zombie]

Maybe... even probably... but maybe he is declining or the system doesn’t fit... he’s been bad but when he was bad we didn’t have other good options... he will have to be really damn good to take possessions away from DM, Ingles, Bojan without costing us something.

No doubt, I mean all we can do is wait and see but there is reason for optimism imo.

I'm not going to fret too much over whether he starts when he gets back or not, either way I think Quin will figure out how best to use him.

One thing I do want to see more of when he returns is PnR with Bogdanovic. I think that's a natural combo that has the potential to really give teams fits.

 

[dong2ha]

and yeah... argument has been made in that Conley is actually also irrelevant in that regards... the guy basically spent his entire career trying to take the grizz to the next level in the playoffs but never did... if you want "keep trying in the playoffs but keep failing each year" typa experience, then conley is your go-to guy. but weren't we in that state already?

by comparison, Kawhi is a bona-fide superstar, who had championship experience with Finals MVP to his name. now THAT IS the guy who would for sure take you to the next level in playoffs.

But can we get a player like that? With the package we had? Top 5 player? Couldve had an okay player but not a top 5 player right?

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[JazzBird]

You are missing the point, No Conley= No Bogdanovic and probably no Mudiay.
The Jazz starters with Conley were playing pretty well before he got hurt, it was the bench that was getting lit up and lost games for us.

Is Conley worth 30M? No probably not, but was it worth it for Bogey, and Mudiay? Absolutely.
Another thing getting Conley didn't really stop us from adding pieces, we still got Clarkson, Davis, Green, Bogey, And Mudiay. Maybe some of those were misses, but who cares the overall effect is that this team is far better and that is despite that Conley hasn't really played up to his standard yet.

Theres been no evidence to suggest Bogdan wouldnt have signed without conley nor mudiay. Mudiay has said he signed because of snyder and the jazz player development system.
Did having conley help in bringing in bogdan and mudiay??? Who knows, and theres not much other than conjecture to suggest they wouldnt have.
The current starting 5 have been better than the starting 5 with conley.

You take conley off this team right now and not much changes, you add him to the team right now and it threatens to disrupt the current rotation that is working. People keep saying but conley is a scorer and a boarderline all star, well what if he continues to shoot below 40% what if he continues to struggle on defense then would one still say hes relevant?

 

[fallenchicken]

Conley isn't our best player, he's not supposed to be--if we're going to win, that has to be split between mitchell and gobert--but he's a piece. He's supposed to be our third/fourth best player. And you're going to need all of them to beat a kwahi, or a lebron or a davis. To even have a chance you have to be stacked. Since we can't get one of those players ourselves, this is our counter. We have to bet on Mitchell taking a step, Gobert dominating defensively, and then put really strong pieces around them. Or else you have a repeat of the Houston series the last two years. For once, we're going to be the team with options.

 

[checkbookdoc]

What are the odds that Bogey signs with the Jazz if we didn't trade for Conley, and kept Crowder?

100% because we offered the most $ and years. Conley may have impacted his attitude/excitement level, but having Conley did not impact Bojan's decision to sign with the Jazz.

 

[gregbroncs]

Theres been no evidence to suggest Bogdan wouldnt have signed without conley nor mudiay. Mudiay has said he signed because of snyder and the jazz player development system.
Did having conley help in bringing in bogdan and mudiay??? Who knows, and theres not much other than conjecture to suggest they wouldnt have.
The current starting 5 have been better than the starting 5 with conley.

You take conley off this team right now and not much changes, you add him to the team right now and it threatens to disrupt the current rotation that is working. People keep saying but conley is a scorer and a boarderline all star, well what if he continues to shoot below 40% what if he continues to struggle on defense then would one still say hes relevant?

I'm in the group that believes we are going to need him in the playoffs. And I believe that the players we signed, signed with us because of the move to get Conley. If Favors and Crowder are still here, we don't go after Bogey. If Conley isn't traded to us then we are not high on the list of places to go for the FA's we signed. Maybe there is no evidence, but it seems really convenient that things seemed to happen quickly after the Conley trade. And there is no evidence that his coming here did not factor in.

If Conley isn't relevant in the playoffs then we aren't going past the 2nd round. If we didn't move to get him, we likely weren't going past the 1st round IMO.

 

[eacioban]

Come playoff time, he will be hugely relevant.

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[gregbroncs]

100% because we offered the most $ and years. Conley may have impacted his attitude/excitement level, but having Conley did not impact Bojan's decision to sign with the Jazz.

Prove it. He could have stayed in Indiana. They may have tried to match the contract but he signed here quickly after the Jazz approached him. Also without the move to get Conley we aren't really looking for a PF, we still had Crowder.

 

[gregbroncs]

What are the odds that Bogey signs with the Jazz if we didn't trade for Conley, and kept Crowder?

Slim to no chance.

 

[checkbookdoc]

Prove it. He could have stayed in Indiana. They may have tried to match the contract but he signed here quickly after the Jazz approached him. Also without the move to get Conley we aren't really looking for a PF, we still had Crowder.

How about you disprove it (that is how real science works). It has been mentioned by Jazz media people (I don't remember who) that Indiana was unwilling to give the 4th year. Also, nobody believes we wouldn't have signed Bojan just because we had Crowder on the team.

 

[checkbookdoc]

Slim to no chance.

LOL, this is wrong. Bojan came because the Jazz offered most $ and years.

 

[jom2003]

But can we get a player like that? With the package we had? Top 5 player? Couldve had an okay player but not a top 5 player right?

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No we cannot. All I was suggesting is that people been talking about Conley as if he was Kawhi caliber. But he is not. In fact, if you looking into his track record, there is a reason for Grizz to fall short every year and Conley had everything to do with it. There is a reason for a player to put up the best stats in his career then lead his team to one of the worst offensive ratings in the league. And look at where Ja's been taking that same(pretty much, with the addition of Crowder and a bunch of rookies) Grizz offense now.

 

[LogGrad98]

Prove it. He could have stayed in Indiana. They may have tried to match the contract but he signed here quickly after the Jazz approached him. Also without the move to get Conley we aren't really looking for a PF, we still had Crowder.

Here you go.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/1703286001

He said himself that the jazz had the better offer. About all he says that night include Conley is he liked the roster.

I tried to copy out of that article but it won't work on my phone for some reason. The closest he gets us he mentions Conley, Mitchell, and gobert - the best defensive player in the league (that's in the quote) as huge reasons why he left for Utah. But in the end he says he saw the offer, then looked at the roster and the opportunity and that's why he came to Utah. Not one thing about "well since they got Conley I'll consider it, otherwise **** them and their better offer with more guaranteed years and best defensive player in the league".

Now you prove he specifically said "no Conley, no sign".

 

[jom2003]

Slim to no chance.

Any real facts to back up your claim?

 

[JazzBird]

Conley isn't our best player, he's not supposed to be--if we're going to win, that has to be split between mitchell and gobert--but he's a piece. He's supposed to be our third/fourth best player. And you're going to need all of them to beat a kwahi, or a lebron or a davis. To even have a chance you have to be stacked. Since we can't get one of those players ourselves, this is our counter. We have to bet on Mitchell taking a step, Gobert dominating defensively, and then put really strong pieces around them. Or else you have a repeat of the Houston series the last two years. For once, we're going to be the team with options.

I agree conley is not the jazz best player but hes paid like hes their best player which is a problem. Sure hes an assett and will help but at what cost? Hes not a player that has ever put his team over the top, hes never even made an all star team, but hes paid like an all star hes paid like an impact player. The Jazz need him to be more than what hes been, they are paying him to make a difference and so far hes looked no better than Neto

 

[jom2003]

Here you go.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/1703286001

He said himself that the jazz had the better offer. About all he says that night include Conley is he liked the roster.

I tried to copy out of that article but it won't work on my phone for some reason. The closest he gets us he mentions Conley, Mitchell, and gobert - the best defensive player in the league (that's in the quote) as huge reasons why he left for Utah. But in the end he says he saw the offer, then looked at the roster and the opportunity and that's why he came to Utah. Not one thing about "well since they got Conley I'll consider it, otherwise **** them and their better offer with more guaranteed years and best defensive player in the league".

Now you prove he specifically said "no Conley, no sign".

People kept talking about Conley in a way as if he was lebron or Kawhi...players don't sign unless he sign. We won't go to next level in playoffs unless he signs... it's just getting ridiculous