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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

silesian said:
Jazzyfresh thinks that no guilty person has ever gotten away with a crime. Apparently, smile.

There are logic classes online, FYI
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Yeah that's why I spent the entire night talking about crimes other presidents have gotten away with. "bUT TwUmp heRr mY SoCiAwist feewINgs".

Derp
 
silesian said:
I used to think the Democrats were the ones who would look for every opportunity to be offended under false pretenses.
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And I've never believed you're a conservative. Now you're literally sticking up for Pelosi. I'll leave you alone about it if you find me two fiscal conservative post by you in the last month. Personally I don't see it, I see a guy who will change his own beliefs and personal convictions in a second as long as it's anti-Trump. Pro Pelosi though.
 
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Red said:
Well, may you live long enough to know which of us was correct. I'm thinking it will take some time to undo the damage that I see taking place. And with what I see as "retrograde forces" pushing a Post Truth landscape, well, that may make finding truth as elusive as it could possibly ever be, and I doubt I'll live long enough to see us get completely past this regrettable trend toward "truth is whatever you want it to be", or "truth is what the president says it is". Authoritarians love truth that is flexible toward their needs. The reason why I cannot envision, and would never want to accept, a Post Truth landscape as a permanent state. But we are still moving into that landscape, and I hope we spot the off ramps from that path, and head for them. It's gonna be awhile, I think. I just wish more Americans understood why that trend can be so damaging if we don't arrest it soon.

And, even if I be correct, it depends on how the American people ultimately respond to what the Trump Era wrought, that will really determine if we wish it had never happened. We might still wish as much, but if we learn from it, maybe we can turn it into a positive. Right now, we are severely divided, and divided we fall. I'd like to think that will not happen, and that we can eventually elevate and honor again our core values and principles. Even if my take is correct, I'd like to believe we can recover and learn from this huge mistake, as I see it. Mistakes should at least provide valuable lessons that we can use to create a better union. We're still a work in progress, it ain't over yet.
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I'm happy to hear that their is at least the possibility of an optimistic outcome in your view. To me, in the pre-Trump world, we were already well into the post-truth era. It's just that the left (which had seized control of the narrative especially through media and academia) was successfully running roughshod over all conservative thought. A very relevant and ironic example is how effectively they neutralized Mitt Romney. I saw him as a very effective leader (probably partially because I was somewhat involved in the Olympic situation) and I also saw him as a polite and honest man (which I am still convinced that he is), but in the campaign against Obama he sadly proved to conservatives that nice guys finish last. He was neutered by the mud that was slung at him, but even moreso by his decision to take the high road in response. That path destroyed him because it gave his opposition the space to turn him into an archaic, sexist, out-of-touch fossil in the eyes of critical voters. It is so fitting that Romney and Trump's pathways have now become so interwoven. Romney's timid approach to liberal retoric (as well as McCain and Bush's legacy of the same) invited the bull into the china shop.

The biggest divide of all is that many conservatives are happy that so much liberal china is now being broken. It should not surprise anyone who has paid close attention to liberal versus conservative views that the two groups hate one another's taste in china.
 
Red said:
This might be the most insightful short essay on impeachment, and it's inherent flaws, and flaws born of partisanship, that I have ever read. Would that I could be this concise and on point. Yes, it's anti-Trump, which might encourage my pro-Trump friends to ignore it, but I do believe we can all gain from the insights this essay provides. Essentially, it's about what partisanship has rendered. I found it very clarifying, and am sharing it for that reason.

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/606208/
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I think it was a bad choice on the author's part to point out only partisanship on the right. It's also interesting to me that he claims that partisanship is this big new problem, and then blames partisanship as the reason that the method for selecting the senate had to be changed early last century. That part seems to be poorly thought out.

The part about how terrible Trump has been since the impeachment is where we are going to really disagree. In particular, I see the whole Stone thing as rampant partisanship from the left. His sentencing recommendation was incredibly out of touch and out of proportion to his "crime." The reason the left hates him so badly is because of his connection to Trump, not because has ever done anything that merits spending nearly a decade in prison. I think the anti-Trump crowd is as far off on this issue as they could possibly be (as are the four attorneys). I do not see them begging for sentences (or even trials) of the many, many other characters who we could easily convict for the same as Stone or worse. It is such an absolute joke how that man has been treated. In fact, the claim is so egregious that I'm not even going to read beyond that part of the article. Instead, I'm going on vacation.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
His sentencing recommendation was incredibly out of touch and out of proportion to his "crime." The reason the left hates him so badly is because of his connection to Trump, not because has ever done anything that merits spending nearly a decade in prison.
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When you see the prosecutors of the DOJ (and the agents of the FBI) as "the left", that's really way, way out there.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
His sentencing recommendation was incredibly out of touch and out of proportion to his "crime." The reason the left hates him so badly is because of his connection to Trump, not because has ever done anything that merits spending nearly a decade in prison.
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Well, the sentencing guidelines for the crimes that he committed were 7-9 years. Doesn't matter what you think; those are the guidelines. I think, esp. in the case of witness intimidation, prosecutors really frown on that one. I suspect the reason the 4 prosecutors walked away is because they had recommended the standard sentencing guidelines, and were disgusted by the interference. I'd like to think I'd walk away too, if I had done things by the book, and then Trump steps in, calling the guideline sentence way out of bounds. Then, he has the classless gall to tell the prosecutors to "go back to school". Enjoy your vacation, although I think, where Trump is concerned, you took a vacation from reality long ago.....
 
One Brow said:
When you see the prosecutors of the DOJ (and the agents of the FBI) as "the left", that's really way, way out there.
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If you are critical of trump, or critical of anyone with any connection in any way to Trump, then you are "The Left"

That's were we are now. Trumpism truly is a cult.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
JazzyFresh said:
And I've never believed you're a conservative. Now you're literally sticking up for Pelosi. I'll leave you alone about it if you find me two fiscal conservative post by you in the last month. Personally I don't see it, I see a guy who will change his own beliefs and personal convictions in a second as long as it's anti-Trump. Pro Pelosi though.
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Are you Nancy Pelosi? Because my comment was about you, not her. You can believe whatever you like about my politics, I don't care, you are not tethered to reality at all. Call me a Nazi, a Commie, whatever.....

You are living in your own little alternative universe and if I knew you I might worry about your mental health.
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...152c36-4f2f-11ea-bf44-f5043eb3918a_story.html

"In the ABC interview, Barr said Trump would be within his rights to ask for an investigation in an area that didn’t affect his personal interest — such as in a terrorism case or fraud by a bank. But he said an attorney general would not listen to an order to investigate a political opponent".
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Well, I've long since developed doubts about Barr's independence from Trump, so I'll be skeptical of the above opinion for the time being. I hope he backs that up, should Trump come for investigations of the people who told the truth at the impeachment trial. He even right now thinks the Pentagon should investigate Vindman. And Trump supporters would see nothing wrong with that. I have friends who support Trump, but, at this stage, I must conclude such friends have been brainwashed and are divorced from any semblance of reality. As are every one of the Trump apologists here, IMO.



Doesn't anyone believe Trump's "right" doesn't include, in his mind, the right to ask the AG to investigate a Trump "enemy"? From Trump's perspective, it's legal for a president to be as corrupt as he chooses to be.

Some Trump supporters have expressed the opinion that Trump's behavior since his acquittal is somehow OK. I am incredulous that anyone would see politicization of the Dept. of Justice as OK, or that there is anything appropriate as to how he has behaved. At this stage, if you are defending this president, you are a member of the Cult of Trump. And that is whether you know it or not.

He took a sledgehammer to the Constutionally granted right of the Legislative Branch to exercise oversight over the Executive, by his steadfast refusal to accept the House impeachment inquiry, through refusing to comply with document supoenas, and telling administration officials and ex officials to ignore subpoenas to testify. Blame the Dems for not taking this refusal all the way to SCOTUS, but, the fact remains he trashed the Constitution in his refusal to pay any attention to the right of the House regarding oversight of the Executive.

And he keeps right on acting like he is above the law. There is nothing remotely OK about this man's behavior. If you can't see that by now, I suspect you can never be helped; you will never break free of his cult if you have not done so yet. Enjoy your fantasy reality....
 
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