Coronavirus

[stitches]

Well Well Well...

What do you know? Just now on NBC nightly news the Head of CDC, Dr. Robert Redfield is saying we should be wearing MASKS even though you're not showing symptoms WHO are saying still saying otherwise.

Too little too late?!?!?!

Now they're saying at lease wear cloth masks... LOL .. 3,000 deaths and nearly 200,000 cases too late IMO.

WHO is in a precarious situation. The Asian countries who have had experience with epidemics in the past all have a culture of wearing masks and quickly following up with recommended steps in case of an emergency situation. South Korea, Taiwan, Singapoore, Hong Kong... they are all countries that had SARS outbreaks in 2002-2003 and Korea had a MERS outbreak in 2015. This is NOT the only reason those places seem to be handling this epidemic very well and limiting cases now, but part of it is their wide-spread use of masks. WHO strongly recommends masks for medical personnel everywhere. It's interesting that WHO doesn't recommend it for the population in the western world but recommends it for South Korea for cultural reasons.

This sounds insidious in a way until you realize the reasons for it... the reasons are that they are afraid of panic buying of masks and hoarding by the population that will leave the medical workers unprotected in the western world(just look at the toilet paper hoarders, imagine what will happen if they told them the masks work very well and are mandatory), something that's not so present in those Asian countries where they seem to have experience with epidemics and culture about it that won't deplete their resources for medical workers.

There is no reason to think that masks don't help at least partially for the general population. Even if they are not 100% proof to stop you from getting the virus, there are several points where it helps:
1. small chance it will prevent a droplet from someone else infected talking around you landing on your face, mouth, nose.
2. it stops you from directly touching your face frequently, thus limiting the chance you will transfer it on your face if you've touched a surface that has the virus until you wash your hands
3. all the sick are mandated to wear masks, because they limit how much the sick contaminate the ones around them and the environment/surfaces around them. A ton of people who are infected don't know it, thus widespread mask use captures a lot of them in limiting spreading the disease.

With that said - masks are not a panacea. They don't protect perfectly. Even medical grade masks don't have 100% certainty, that's why a ton of medical workers become sick. BUT - if we had unlimited resources of masks I bet CDC, WHO and every health organization would be recommending using them, because they seem to be helping with lowering the spread. On a population level it's not that important whether this or that person gets it, it's important that the reproduction rate of the virus is brought down to a level where either you slow down the disease and flatten the curve or bring the reproduction rate below 1, in which case you can hope to stop it altogether. Masks are just one part of the measures that help lower that reproduction rate.

 

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Trump suggested we wear scarves.

Ivanka should be coming out with a new line of neck wear any day now.

Honestly, I have been appalled by how Trump has handled himself in this crisis. But this is not one of those cases. If people don't have masks, it's probably better they wear scarves than not wearing anything.

 

[The Midnight]

WHO is in a precarious situation. The Asian countries who have had experience with epidemics in the past all have a culture of wearing masks and quickly following up with recommended steps in case of an emergency situation. South Korea, Taiwan, Singapoore, Hong Kong... they are all countries that had SARS outbreaks in 2002-2003 and Korea had a MERS outbreak in 2015. This is NOT the only reason those places seem to be handling this epidemic very well and limiting cases now, but part of it is their wide-spread use of masks. WHO strongly recommends masks for medical personnel everywhere. It's interesting that WHO doesn't recommend it for the population in the western world but recommends it for South Korea for cultural reasons.

This sounds insidious in a way until you realize the reasons for it... the reasons are that they are afraid of panic buying of masks and hoarding by the population that will leave the medical workers unprotected in the western world(just look at the toilet paper hoarders, imagine what will happen if they told them the masks work very well and are mandatory), something that's not so present in those Asian countries where they seem to have experience with epidemics and culture about it that won't deplete their resources for medical workers.

There is no reason to think that masks don't help at least partially for the general population. Even if they are not 100% proof to stop you from getting the virus, there are several points where it helps:
1. small chance it will prevent a droplet from someone else infected talking around you landing on your face, mouth, nose.
2. it stops you from directly touching your face frequently, thus limiting the chance you will transfer it on your face if you've touched a surface that has the virus until you wash your hands
3. all the sick are mandated to wear masks, because they limit how much the sick contaminate the ones around them and the environment/surfaces around them. A ton of people who are infected don't know it, thus widespread mask use captures a lot of them in limiting spreading the disease.

With that said - masks are not a panacea. They don't protect perfectly. Even medical grade masks don't have 100% certainty, that's why a ton of medical workers become sick. BUT - if we had unlimited resources of masks I bet CDC, WHO and every health organization would be recommending using them, because they seem to be helping with lowering the spread. On a population level it's not that important whether this or that person gets it, it's important that the reproduction rate of the virus is brought down to a level where either you slow down the disease and flatten the curve or bring the reproduction rate below 1, in which case you can hope to stop it altogether. Masks are just one part of the measures that help lower that reproduction rate.

Yes I agree with most of what you put out here, but the problem I have with saying masks don't work or don't wear them unless you're sick is:

1. It gives people false information, and that is not good.

2. Giving people false information makes people question the authority's message going forward. That's dangerous because people are now less likely to trust and follow any advice and directions.

3. There's no urgency in producing surgical masks or even cloth masks VS N95 masks or ventilators since the authority have been saying that the form 2 did not work.

The head of CDC had just today recognized that masks are useful, I mean, after how many deaths later?

Facts are facts. There's no need to try to dodge it just because there aren't enough of something.

 

[stitches]

Yes I agree with most of what you put out here, but the problem I have with saying masks don't work or don't wear them unless you're sick is:

1. It gives people false information, and that is not good.

2. Giving people false information makes people question the authority's message going forward. That's dangerous because people are now less likely to trust and follow any advice and directions.

3. There's no urgency in producing surgical masks or even cloth masks VS N95 masks or ventilators since the authority have been saying that the form 2 did not work.

The head of CDC had just today recognized that masks are useful, I mean, after how many deaths later?

Facts are facts. There's no need to try to dodge it just because there aren't enough of something.

Absolutely agree with 1 and 2.

I'm not sure there is no urgency in producing masks. There is urgency... but there is just shortage EVERYWHERE. The western world is not ready for this type of demand. Almost every single country in the world right now is putting in orders by the billions right now. Keep in mind that a lot of the production has been outsourced to China and even if the production itself is not entirely in China, the resources and supply chains for those PPEs, medications, equipment, materials go through China.

IMO this is a strategic weakness of the Western world's strategy with handling crisis like that. In the future they will need to diversify their resources on critical equipment, materials, etc. even if it's not as cheap as going to China for most of it.

 

[The Midnight]

Absolutely agree with 1 and 2.

I'm not sure there is no urgency in producing masks. There is urgency... but there is just shortage EVERYWHERE. The western world is not ready for this type of demand. Almost every single country in the world right now is putting in orders by the billions right now. Keep in mind that a lot of the production has been outsourced to China and even if the production itself is not entirely in China, the resources and supply chains for those PPEs, medications, equipment, materials go through China.

IMO this is a strategic weakness of the Western world's strategy with handling crisis like that. In the future they will need to diversify their resources on critical equipment, materials, etc. even if it's not as cheap as going to China for most of it.

Ok on the 1 and 2, that's gonna be a problem if things don't turn around quick. I mean I'm still seeing Trump and expert doctors and officials giving press conferences without wearing masks - speaking and sometimes shouting not more than 2-3 meters away from the press.

What's their excuse? That they don't have the virus? Are they testing themselves every single day to know that?

It starts at the top and unless things change, the outcome won't change. And the trajectory of where we're going won't change.

 

[The Midnight]

Also on relying on the Chinese to make masks.. um.. the last I check they don't have a patent on surgical or cloth masks? If GM can turn their factory into making complicated ventilators, other factories around the country can be turned into making simple surgical or cloth masks. I mean have you seen how simple they are to make?

 

[Red]

I just do not understand this. I know we are a federal system, 50 states, but why is the federal government not correcting this? We are also one nation, so this seems absurd. Why are states having to bid for what they desperately need?

https://news.google.com/articles/CA...AowjuuKAzCWrzwwloEY?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

A chorus of governors from across the political spectrum is publicly challenging the Trump administration’s assertion that the United States is well-stocked and well-prepared to test people for the coronavirus and care for the sickest patients.

In New York State — the center of the nation’s outbreak, with at least 1,550 deaths — Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said on Tuesday that the country’s patchwork approach to the pandemic had made it harder to get desperately needed ventilators.

“You now literally will have a company call you up and say, ‘Well, California just outbid you,’” Mr. Cuomo, a Democrat, said in his daily news briefing. “It’s like being on eBay with 50 other states, bidding on a ventilator.”

Gov. Larry Hogan of Maryland, a Republican, said on Tuesday that his state was “flying blind” in the fight against the coronavirus because officials did not have enough tests. When asked during an NPR interview about President Trump’s comments suggesting that a chronic lack of test kits was no longer a problem in the United States, Mr. Hogan did not mince words: “Yeah, that’s just not true.”

 

[JazzGal]

Yes absolutely the right thing to do, for both you and everyone around you. Is it easy enough to get tested around where you live?

Getting easier all the time.

The trouble is getting masks. I have a few regular ones on hand only because I have lung disease and it helps keep cold air out of my lungs in the winter. But I didn't restock before everything sold out and is rightfully going to medical staff.

I have one N95 mask that I'll use if I get COVID. I feel too guilty to wear it to the office now as my law enforcement coworkers can't get them presently and really need them. But I don't want to give mine away because I need it too.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Red]

Evidence mounts that Trump is squashing a federal response to the coronavirus. Why???
It's difficult not to see this as criminal behavior! Why is there no federal coordination? I thought we were one nation?

"Trump’s failure to nationalize the response to the crisis amounts to nothing less than sabotage of the war against this disease.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the CEOs of many major companies are explaining why nationalization of the supply chain—an act that Trump refuses to take—is so important."


https://peoplesworld.org/article/ev...is-squashing-federal-response-to-coronavirus/

--"Other than the daily public relations show performed on national television by Donald Trump, there is no coordinated national response. Trump has not fully invoked the Defense Production Act which allows the government to order private companies to produce what is needed. There is no national stay-at-home order, despite the fact that the United States is now the hardest-hit nation on the planet."

--"The lack of a coordinated national response has resulted in a complicated patchwork of responses on the state, city, town, and county levels all across the country—and many of those are inadequate."

--"Yesterday, Trump said in his daily show that he had met with the nation’s governors earlier in the day and that they were “happy” with “what we have done.” Someone taped the meeting, however, and it was played on national television last night. It presented a very different picture than the one painted by Trump in his public remarks."

--"Trump reiterated to the governors that the federal government’s role is to “back up and assist” them but that it is the states themselves that are responsible for fighting the virus.
Later in the day, he essentially admitted to the absurdity of his idea last week to pack the churches on Easter. But rather than switching gears and mounting a federal response, he instead lowered the bar for the federal government, essentially declaring that if “only” 200,000 died, the federal government could declare “victory.”

 

[JazzyFresh]

Daily check in.

204,963 average cases per day for 365 more days to hit 75,000,000(and that was the low irresponsible fear mongering prediction). That's still about 1.7 cases per second for an entire year.

I keep expecting this number to start dramatically changing but it's not. This exponential growth that I was ridiculed and called stupid about just isn't happening on the fear mongering scale that was being pushed and hoped for.

 

[JazzyFresh]

Evidence mounts that Trump is squashing a federal response to the coronavirus. Why???
It's difficult not to see this as criminal behavior! Why is there no federal coordination? I thought we were one nation?

"Trump’s failure to nationalize the response to the crisis amounts to nothing less than sabotage of the war against this disease.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the CEOs of many major companies are explaining why nationalization of the supply chain—an act that Trump refuses to take—is so important."


https://peoplesworld.org/article/ev...is-squashing-federal-response-to-coronavirus/

--"Other than the daily public relations show performed on national television by Donald Trump, there is no coordinated national response. Trump has not fully invoked the Defense Production Act which allows the government to order private companies to produce what is needed. There is no national stay-at-home order, despite the fact that the United States is now the hardest-hit nation on the planet."

--"The lack of a coordinated national response has resulted in a complicated patchwork of responses on the state, city, town, and county levels all across the country—and many of those are inadequate."

--"Yesterday, Trump said in his daily show that he had met with the nation’s governors earlier in the day and that they were “happy” with “what we have done.” Someone taped the meeting, however, and it was played on national television last night. It presented a very different picture than the one painted by Trump in his public remarks."

--"Trump reiterated to the governors that the federal government’s role is to “back up and assist” them but that it is the states themselves that are responsible for fighting the virus.
Later in the day, he essentially admitted to the absurdity of his idea last week to pack the churches on Easter. But rather than switching gears and mounting a federal response, he instead lowered the bar for the federal government, essentially declaring that if “only” 200,000 died, the federal government could declare “victory.”

So gross dude. Personally I wish you'd just let up with your obvious copy and pasted bias disinformation for one day. People are dying here. Let no crisis go to waste.

 

[JazzyFresh]

@Red

Who says this? Can you provide the doctors who are saying this? From what I'm seeing 200,000 is a high guesstimate. Second paragraph of your obvious propaganda piece.

"The nation’s top health officials say that if everything goes “perfectly,” we will “only” have up to 200,000 dead. If things don’t go perfectly, it could be in the millions, they say."