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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

sirkickyass said:
I acknowledge they are vehement. I don't acknowledge that they are anything more than hacks.

Part of the reason I linked to Lawfare is that it's a traditionally conservative national security law policy center. They actually came out with an article (which they've stated they regret) that everyone should give Bill Barr a chance. They have a ton of expertise, and in any other political circumstances they are clearly right of center. And it's beyond obvious to them that the entire circus around Flynn is plain administration corruption and in total bad faith.

But I follow both sides. I know that Fox News is giving air time to random tax law attorneys in Texas who will go on for twenty minutes about "unmasking" and be treated with reverential respect because they are saying the thing the hosts want to believe.

Look man. I followed all of this stuff very closely for years. It's obvious there's whole dimensions to this that you're totally unfamiliar with (the Gulen thing for example, or what the circumstances were of Flynn's charges). Why do you believe that you're capable of discerning who's an expert in this area and who isn't? Can you tell a good legal argument from a bad one?

Tell you what - the administration is very into selectively declassifying things these days in an attempt to make Flynn look good. Why don't they declassify the transcript of what Flynn said to Kislyak? It's not as if it's a national security secret: the Russians already know what he said and it's already public knowledge that the conversation happened. Do you think if that conversation looked good or exonerating that it would already be declassified?
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This is one of many examples of a lawyer who I do not believe is a hack who does not agree with you on this particular case.
https://thehill.com/opinion/crimina...-case-should-be-dismissed-to-preserve-justice
Your political bias is obvious, so it does not surprise me that you only respect lawyers and others who agree with you.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
This is one of many examples of a lawyer who I do not believe is a hack who does not agree with you on this particular case.
https://thehill.com/opinion/crimina...-case-should-be-dismissed-to-preserve-justice
Your political bias is obvious, so it does not surprise me that you only respect lawyers and others who agree with you.
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The one law professor they could find to testify on Trump's behalf on impeachment. Shocker that he also takes the administration position on this one. Nope, def not a hack.

Not discussed in this article:

1. Flynn was an unregistered agent of Russia.

2. Flynn was an unregistered agent of Turkey

3. Flynn did the crime (Call with Kislyak)

4. Flynn lied when asked about it.

5. Flynn lied to the Vice President and Sean Spicer about the call.

What part of the evidence discussed in this article disproves any of the fundamental features of the case? What part of the legal argument in this article transforms Flynn's statements into truths? Did he lie when he plead guilty twice?

The article is hacky because it doesn't even engage major portions of the case. It's just a laundry list recitation of Flynn's defense attorneys' filings.
 
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sirkickyass said:
The one law professor they could find to testify on Trump's behalf on impeachment. Shocker that he also takes the administration position on this one. Nope, def not a hack.

Not discussed in this article:

1. Flynn was an unregistered agent of Russia.

2. Flynn was an unregistered agent of Turkey

3. Flynn did the crime (Call with Kislyak)

4. Flynn lied when asked about it.

5. Flynn lied to the Vice President and Sean Spicer about the call.

What part of the evidence discussed in this article disproves any of the fundamental features of the case? What part of the legal argument in this article transforms Flynn's statements into truths? Did he lie when he plead guilty twice?

The article is hacky because it doesn't even engage major portions of the case. It's just a laundry list recitation of Flynn's defense attorneys' filings.
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Among the things that you don't seem to be interested in discussing are the following:

1. The lead FBI agent (Peter Strzok) on this case has shown himself to be highly biased politically. His personal messages make it clear that he is not merely cheering for, but steering for specific outcomes in specific cases.

2. Calling Kislyak is not a crime (you said it was in point #3).

3. Recently released documents make the motivations and involvement of other players in the investigation seem extremely suspicious.

4. Flynn claims that the FBI threatened investigations into his son's affairs if he did not cooperate with Mueller. (I doubt any parent would want the FBI turning on their family members, regardless of what they had done.)

5. Mueller recommended that Flynn serve no jail time.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
1. The lead FBI agent (Peter Strzok) on this case has shown himself to be highly biased politically. His personal messages make it clear that he is not merely cheering for, but steering for specific outcomes in specific cases.
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How does this change any of the points I outlined?

Did Peter Strzok make Flynn be a foreign agent of Turkey and Russia? Did Peter Strzok make Flynn lie to Pence and Spicer? Did Peter Strzok make Flynn try to sell Gulen for $15 million to Erdogan?

Move to strike for relevance.

2. Calling Kislyak is not a crime (you said it was in point #3).
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I don't need to get into Logan act stuff. The call is the predicate fact that is necessary for him to lie. There's no dispute he did it.

3. Recently released documents make the motivations and involvement of other players in the investigation seem extremely suspicious.
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How did anybody else make Flynn be an unregistered agent of foreign countries? How did anybody else make Flynn try to sell US foreign policy?

4. Flynn claims that the FBI threatened investigations into his son's affairs if he did not cooperate with Mueller. (I doubt any parent would want the FBI turning on their family members, regardless of what they had done.)
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Does this change that Flynn was an unregistered foreign agent of Turkey and Russia? Does it change that he lied repeatedly about his call with Kislyak?

5. Mueller recommended that Flynn serve no jail time.
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In exchange for a guilty plea and cooperation with the probe. What happened after that?

It's all side streets with you buddy.

I get that he's an important supporter of a guy you like. But dude betrayed the country. Full stop. You can't be in charge of the national security of the United states and secretly work for Turkey and Russia.
 
colton said:
And tomorrow he'll announce that it was just a joke, somehow proving that he owns the libs because they thought he was serious. .
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Yep. And his followers will fall for it. They’ll defend him. Theyll post memes and gifs. They’ll claim that he’s playing 300 dimensional chess and that any criticism of his lack of understanding is somehow playing into his hands. And Americans will continue to die due to our lack of a plan.

Any surprise that the two epicenters of this pandemic are now the United States and Brazil? Bolsonaro claimed to want to be the “Trump” of South America. Sadly, for millions of Brazilians, looks like he’s getting his wish.
 
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One Brow said:
So, your defense to the notion of Pence delivering empty boxes for show is that he admits he's delivering empty boxes for show?
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To be fair, every time a politician does something like this it is generally for show, regardless of what they say or how it is framed. You don't get very many candid videos of politicians doing this kind of stuff and just, like, being caught doing it rather than it being staged.
 
LogGrad98 said:
To be fair, every time a politician does something like this it is generally for show, regardless of what they say or how it is framed. You don't get very many candid videos of politicians doing this kind of stuff and just, like, being caught doing it rather than it being staged.
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Absolutely. It's for show whether the boxes are full or empty.
 
The Thriller said:
Yep. And his followers will fall for it. They’ll defend him. Theyll post memes and gifs. They’ll claim that he’s playing 300 dimensional chess and that any criticism of his lack of understanding is somehow playing into his hands.
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Well, if he wins in November, this issue would have to be reconciled. Either he's playing 300 dimensional chess or the DNC lost a chess match against someone playing 'heads or tails.' I think it's more of the latter, myself.
 
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