CONAN
Well-Known Member
Too far.
SI picks Utes to win PAC12 South.
- Thread starter Chad Feldheimer
- Start date
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Justify playing the 1984 card however you like. There's not a way to make it not look like a pathetic reach no matter how you try to spin it.
I quoted the last part of your post because those 2 sentences seemed to stick out at me the most. First of all, just because you come into a Ute thread talking your smack doesn't automatically qualify it as a "dose of reality". Sure, it may be what you believe to be reality, but what does that amount to? And then about me having the balls ot admit Utah "sucks wang also". You seem to be trying to justify BYU's season basically going up in flames by saying: "Yeah, but the Utes suck too". Between that and the 1984 garbage, I think this is the weakest sauce I've ever seen from you and quite frankly I'm a little bummed. I guess I came to expect more out of you.
(Oh, and byt the way, Congrats on that Holiday Bowl win over a 6-5 Michigan team and basically being the catalyst for the current BCS system)
The thing is, I won't admit Utah "sucks wang" because I don't think they do. Realistic Utah fans knew that games like the Washington breakdown could and probably would happen upon the move to the Pac 12. Wynn was a huge question mark heading into the season and there was no depth behind him. It was a huge concern going into the season and now that concern is coming to fruition. Looking at who's returning for Utah next year and what's been happening on the recruiting front (especially at the QB spot), I actually feel pretty damn good about Utah and their chances to compete in the Pac 12 moving forward. I also don't expect them to mail it in the rest of this season. In fact, I expect them to compete pretty well from here on out.
Well, that reply certainly beats the, "Scoreboard, clowns" retort. You're still delusional, but that's what being a fan is all about. Good luck on your Championship run -- I'll be here next week when you get stomped. We'll chat then.
Cheers,
David P. Ballou
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
So Trout must not be a BYU fan anymore. If nothing outside of a national championship is relevant, and BYU can't possibly win one as an independent, then BYU football must not be relevant to him anymore.
Whether we think Utah has a shot at winning the national championship in the next few years or not, at least it's technically possible.
Not a 'fan' of either team (Utah/BYU) but cheer for both. After reading Trouts rants there is a reason I cheer for Utah when they play BYU.
Let me sum it up from the outside looking in and not biased
BYU will not be anything until they get into a conference. They need a stronger schedule and they can't recruit to compete once they get the strong schedule as an independent. If they don't get the Big 12 bid expect them to be in the Armed Forces Bowl year after year because there is no way the BCS lets anyone into the party outside of ND.
Utah will struggle in the Pac 12 and I thought this year (If Wynn was healthy and could produce the way he did in the Bowl Game) could be their year with out the schedule shaped up. Utah will get their 'shot' at another BCS game in the next 5 years but it won't be a run like Oregon or USC has had. They don't have the facilities or money to do that. They will be like a Cal, Stanford, Arizona State, Oregon State, ect. that will have a few good years and a years that they are in the middle.
Right now, Utah has the edge with the conference, recruiting, and exposure. Anyone that doesn't see that is a flat out homer.
Who cares anyways.. Michigan is the best program in the nation with Hoke leading us back to glory!!!!!
Ignore that last line... I am a homer.
Let me sum it up from the outside looking in and not biased
BYU will not be anything until they get into a conference. They need a stronger schedule and they can't recruit to compete once they get the strong schedule as an independent. If they don't get the Big 12 bid expect them to be in the Armed Forces Bowl year after year because there is no way the BCS lets anyone into the party outside of ND.
Utah will struggle in the Pac 12 and I thought this year (If Wynn was healthy and could produce the way he did in the Bowl Game) could be their year with out the schedule shaped up. Utah will get their 'shot' at another BCS game in the next 5 years but it won't be a run like Oregon or USC has had. They don't have the facilities or money to do that. They will be like a Cal, Stanford, Arizona State, Oregon State, ect. that will have a few good years and a years that they are in the middle.
Right now, Utah has the edge with the conference, recruiting, and exposure. Anyone that doesn't see that is a flat out homer.
Who cares anyways.. Michigan is the best program in the nation with Hoke leading us back to glory!!!!!
Ignore that last line... I am a homer.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Major bump here. The way I was called out and attacked for this, a bump is in order. I said TCU was the first choice of the Big 12. I didn't think they would accept an invitation, but that was before the Big 12 fell apart.
Well now, lol. Looks like the Pac 12 turned down Texas and Oklahoma. They wanted no part of Texas with that Longhorn Network, and they flat out said no to Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. Aparently the only reason they ever considered Oklahoma and Oklahoma State was because it was part of the package to get Texas. So I guess new tv markets aren't everything, lol.
Anyway, the real point of the bump is that TCU is being added to the Big 12. They are the first team to be voted on by Big 12 members. I guess that means they were the first choice after all.
And this is after BYU fans have been giddy for the past couple weeks hoping and expecting to be invited.
I guess all the ad hominem attacks on me for saying TCU made sense look pretty foolish now.
Link:
https://espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/stor...cu-horned-frogs-meeting-discuss-big-12-invite
Well now, lol. Looks like the Pac 12 turned down Texas and Oklahoma. They wanted no part of Texas with that Longhorn Network, and they flat out said no to Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. Aparently the only reason they ever considered Oklahoma and Oklahoma State was because it was part of the package to get Texas. So I guess new tv markets aren't everything, lol.
Anyway, the real point of the bump is that TCU is being added to the Big 12. They are the first team to be voted on by Big 12 members. I guess that means they were the first choice after all.
And this is after BYU fans have been giddy for the past couple weeks hoping and expecting to be invited.
I guess all the ad hominem attacks on me for saying TCU made sense look pretty foolish now.
Link:
https://espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/stor...cu-horned-frogs-meeting-discuss-big-12-invite
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Salty,
I knew you'd be in here blowing your own horn as soon as I heard the news about TCU to the Big 12. I have one final parting shot for you before I'm done with this once and for all and then you can continue to pat yourself on the back and make sure that YOU get the last word on this matter:
If you remember correctly (and as the posts will point out) our argument was born out of the fact that you and I disagreed over whether or not TCU was the Big 12's top choice should they decide to expand. My entire argument revolved around the fact that TCU didn't necessarily add any new TV's to the Big 12 and while I never said that TV markets were "everything" as you've tried to misrepresent countless times, I did in fact say that the Texas schools weren't too eager to add such a strong program who could become even tougher to recruit against once they joined the Big 12. Long story short, TCU didn't bring much to the table in regards to expanding the Big 12 footprint in any way and schools within the Big 12 weren't too keen on that. That's the EXACT reason they had never been included in a conference with those Texas schools up until now.
I still stand by that argument 100%. Just 48 hours ago I read an article on ESPN that said TCU to the Big 12 was gaining steam but even with all the positives, there were still some schools (most likely the Texas schools) who weren't in love with the idea, but were willing to vote them in for the sake of keeping the Big 12 alive. I also still don't believe that TCU was the Big 12's first choice and I think there's plenty of evidence to back that up for those who chose to look at it objectively. Texas and Oklahoma would have bolted in a heartbeat had the Pac 12 been open to their additions. That was pretty much the first choice of the Big 12 power players. When that door got slammed in their faces, both schools quickly found out that the only real option they had was doing whatever was possible to stabalize the Big 12. Once they realized that, reports are that they reached out to many schools, TCU included. There's even some suggestions locally that BYU may have actually turned down an offer to join the Big 12. Word is that the Big 12 also tried to get schools such as Louisville to consider making the move. I think it's fair to say that the Big 12 was trying very hard to enlarge it's footprint in this process. Either way, I think there's way too much out there for you to claim that TCU was indeed the first choice all along. TCU was simply the first team to say yes.
Who knows, maybe we'll find out for sure that BYU turned down an offer to join. Either way, with the Pac 12 slamming the door, IMO Texas was backed into a corner and came back to the Big 12 table with their tail between their legs and was ready to agree to some concessions that they were initially dead-set against. TCU was one of those concessions.
If that makes you "right" and the "winner", then so be it.......
I knew you'd be in here blowing your own horn as soon as I heard the news about TCU to the Big 12. I have one final parting shot for you before I'm done with this once and for all and then you can continue to pat yourself on the back and make sure that YOU get the last word on this matter:
If you remember correctly (and as the posts will point out) our argument was born out of the fact that you and I disagreed over whether or not TCU was the Big 12's top choice should they decide to expand. My entire argument revolved around the fact that TCU didn't necessarily add any new TV's to the Big 12 and while I never said that TV markets were "everything" as you've tried to misrepresent countless times, I did in fact say that the Texas schools weren't too eager to add such a strong program who could become even tougher to recruit against once they joined the Big 12. Long story short, TCU didn't bring much to the table in regards to expanding the Big 12 footprint in any way and schools within the Big 12 weren't too keen on that. That's the EXACT reason they had never been included in a conference with those Texas schools up until now.
I still stand by that argument 100%. Just 48 hours ago I read an article on ESPN that said TCU to the Big 12 was gaining steam but even with all the positives, there were still some schools (most likely the Texas schools) who weren't in love with the idea, but were willing to vote them in for the sake of keeping the Big 12 alive. I also still don't believe that TCU was the Big 12's first choice and I think there's plenty of evidence to back that up for those who chose to look at it objectively. Texas and Oklahoma would have bolted in a heartbeat had the Pac 12 been open to their additions. That was pretty much the first choice of the Big 12 power players. When that door got slammed in their faces, both schools quickly found out that the only real option they had was doing whatever was possible to stabalize the Big 12. Once they realized that, reports are that they reached out to many schools, TCU included. There's even some suggestions locally that BYU may have actually turned down an offer to join the Big 12. Word is that the Big 12 also tried to get schools such as Louisville to consider making the move. I think it's fair to say that the Big 12 was trying very hard to enlarge it's footprint in this process. Either way, I think there's way too much out there for you to claim that TCU was indeed the first choice all along. TCU was simply the first team to say yes.
Who knows, maybe we'll find out for sure that BYU turned down an offer to join. Either way, with the Pac 12 slamming the door, IMO Texas was backed into a corner and came back to the Big 12 table with their tail between their legs and was ready to agree to some concessions that they were initially dead-set against. TCU was one of those concessions.
If that makes you "right" and the "winner", then so be it.......
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Uh, our discussion was never about the Big 12 schools joining the Pac. I knew that was their first choice and never argued otherwise. We were debating the Big 12 expansion options, not Big 12 breaking up options.
I argued that TCU was the first choice, and now it is proven- they actually invited TCU before anyone else.
You say Louisville might have been the first choice. Well the link says they are staying at 10, and if Mizzou leaves they will invite other schools at that time, with Louisville mentioned. So I agree that Louisville is on their radar, but they obviously weren't the first choice.
Oh yeah, you said:
"TCU didn't bring much to the table in regards to expanding the Big 12 footprint in any way and schools within the Big 12 weren't too keen on that. That's the EXACT reason they had never been included in a conference with those Texas schools up until now."
Uh, you better check your history on that. TCU has, in fact, been in a conference with all of those Texas schools up until fairly recently. TCU even included in their statement that they will be able to renew old rivalries by joining the Big 12. Not sure what made you think otherwise, but you were incorrect.
We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. But clearly, your ad hominem attacks were not warranted. I claimed that TCU was their first choice, in my opinion, and you responded with a bunch of ad hominem attacks. As it turns out, TCU was the first school invited, so there obviously must have been at least some merit to my argument.
Carry on.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
One more thing. As far as ythe "TCU tv market doesn't add anything to the Big 12..." argument goes, here is an interesting quote:
https://espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/story/_/id/6895752/smu-mustangs-go-public-interest-joining-big-12
"Orsini said the school did a study of the TV ratings in the Dallas-Fort Worth market the past two football seasons and discovered the average ratings for Big 12 and SEC games were at best a draw, despite the SEC having no team in Texas, much less the Metroplex. That's why he believes SMU could help put more eyes on the Big 12 in this area."
Adding TCU was even better.
https://espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/story/_/id/6895752/smu-mustangs-go-public-interest-joining-big-12
"Orsini said the school did a study of the TV ratings in the Dallas-Fort Worth market the past two football seasons and discovered the average ratings for Big 12 and SEC games were at best a draw, despite the SEC having no team in Texas, much less the Metroplex. That's why he believes SMU could help put more eyes on the Big 12 in this area."
Adding TCU was even better.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Salty wrote:
My bad on that one. I knew that TCU shared a long history in the Southwest Conference with Texas, Baylor, and Texas Tech. My wording was flawed. My overall point was that when the Big 12 was born the Texas schools did not have any interest in bringing TCU along, and up until now, the Texas schools were still against TCU becoming a member. Texas was basically backed into a corner and as I said before, was forced into making some concessions that they were never willing to make up until now.
As for the rest of it, you're right: We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't believe for 1 second that TCU was the Big 12's first choice, but for the record, I think the TCU addition is great for regional rivalries and a smart move overall by the Big 12.
My bad on that one. I knew that TCU shared a long history in the Southwest Conference with Texas, Baylor, and Texas Tech. My wording was flawed. My overall point was that when the Big 12 was born the Texas schools did not have any interest in bringing TCU along, and up until now, the Texas schools were still against TCU becoming a member. Texas was basically backed into a corner and as I said before, was forced into making some concessions that they were never willing to make up until now.
As for the rest of it, you're right: We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't believe for 1 second that TCU was the Big 12's first choice, but for the record, I think the TCU addition is great for regional rivalries and a smart move overall by the Big 12.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Just to be clear, I was claiming that TCU was their first choice precisely because they were backed into a corner. The writing was on the wall that A&M and Mizzou were both leaving. So they had no choice but to expand if they wanted to still have a conference. And if they are forced to expand, the logical choice was TCU. I figured since they were losing a Texas market (A&M) and TCU was a big time program looking for a conference, it made sense.
I think there are plenty of schools the Big 12 could have easily added if TCU wasn't actually wanted. With the Big East on the verge of collapse, any of those Big East schools would have happily accepted an invitation (and that is also rumored to be in the Big 12 expansion plans should Mizzou actually leave). They could also have any MWC school, CUSA school, and any other mid major. So if they really didn't want TCU, they had plenty of alternatives (including BYU).