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Trade deadline discussion

White Chocolate said:
Please stop ****ing threads up with your terrible takes. Whatever Conley did to you get over it. Your posts about him are so cringe. You literally said we would wave him goodbye if we won the championship. Lmao I don’t even know what to say. You bring up stats but aren’t we undefeated without Mitchell?
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You really should work on your reading comprehension. You get all worked up before you even comprehend what you're reading.

"If we don't win a title or even choke out early, our FO can say that spent they so much money this year going for it (Rudy, Don, JC, Favors, didn't trade anybody to skirt the LT, etc.).

At that point, we probably just wave Conley goodbye."

Many many times I've said we bring everybody back if we win the West or win the Finals.
 
Wish we would have done something. The issue of perimeter D is going to come back and bite us, just watch.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Wish we would have done something. The issue of perimeter D is going to come back and bite us, just watch.
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We are going to try to outshoot the competition and pray that Rudy is enough. There was nothing to stop the top 5 talent out there on the perimeter without compromising the 4 out strategy.
 
gomretat said:
We agree on the Mike situation being bad but I dont get how that is "sloppy." I dont think anyone left Rudy out to dry in any way and I think they handled it very well. And if your point is, can anyone every identify something that could have been done better, you win. Dont know of any place that is not true. But we still disagree on casualness or sloppiness around the cap. Cap issues happen but that is because new situations emerge all of the time and this FO has a track record of managing the cap extremely well and simply now have a new owner who is approving things that were not approved in the past.
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You are flat out wrong... sorry. You are explaining some dynamic situation where there were millions of unknowns... we knew what the cap was, we knew who we wanted to keep, we knew we needed a backup center, we knew exactly how much the MLE was and that using the full amount would mean we were over the tax by a very small amount. We knew that would start the repeater tax clock.

The only unknown I can think of is that maybe they were not sure they would need to re-sign Conley this offseason because he is playing well. Even still good responsible cap managers would have given themselves some ability or wiggle room... there were 3 opportunities to do so. If you fail to plan then you plan to fail.

Take the Favs situation... say they felt he was the only backup center they could ever want or need... but that they also needed to slip below the tax this year to avoid a potential $50M penalty or losing a key cog this offseason... He wants 3 years and $29M as the full MLE... could you just negotiate that number down $1m the first year and tack a fourth year on the deal that is 40% guaranteed and get it done... even if you gave him 4/36 and made the whole thing guaranteed you are giving up $6M to potentially save 10s of millions later or to prevent a future fire sale. If he was deeply offended at the negotiation and walks then guess what? You find another alternative! You just drafted a kid you apparently really love so stringing yourself out long term is likely not ideal.

Call it what you want but if these guys are ****ing financial ninjas like you are purporting then they should be able to manage a couple contract negotiations without setting ourselves up for a catastrophic financial event. If Ryan is so willing to spend why did we give up a real asset to dump Rayjon Tucker's $400k guarantee? If you end up in the tax by a small amount and make moves to shed dollars with assets and add dollars later on meaningless depth... well that doesn't strike me as nailing it. There is some inconsistencies here that even a casual dumb ****ing fan like me can see.

If you think we have managed the cap well then I would advise you to look back at Gordon's final season... we reserved cap space to extend Hill but then we couldn't come to terms and did nothing meaningful with that space. A completely wasted asset. If we are so on top of it don't we negotiate earlier with Hill and use the space if we think we are too far apart?

Doesn't mean DL sux or that our front office is dumz AF... it means whoever our cap guru is should be let go or given a strong talking to... if DL ignored that person then its on him. Not a fireable offense but I've seen CEOs fire smart CFOs over less.
 
LoPo said:
So much will be decided this postseason.....

I'm not a Conley hater. I just want things to add up, and right now, they just haven't for me yet. People can make all the excuses they want, but why are the following numbers the way they are?

www.statmuse.com

What Is The Jazz Record With And Without Conley 2019-2020 | StatMuse

The Utah Jazz were 26-21 with Mike Conley in 2019-20.
www.statmuse.com www.statmuse.com
2019-20 With Conley 26-21 (.553%)
2019-20 Without Conley 18-7 (.72%)
2020 Postseason 2-3 With, 1-1 Without

www.statmuse.com

What Is The Jazz Record With And Without Conley This Season; Points Allowed | StatMuse

The Utah Jazz have a record of 7-13 without Mike Conley this season.
www.statmuse.com www.statmuse.com
2020-21 With Conley 25-10 (.714%)
2020-21 Without Conley 7-1 (.875%)

It's such a bizarre thing that we are statistically better without him than with him. Doesn't make sense. He's a great player. I like the guy. I'm not a Conley hater. I just struggle with the mindset some have around here that he's so incredibly essential.

If we have another disappointing postseason, I don't know if re-signing Mike to jettison Bogey, JC and/or Favors is the right move. I really hope we don't disappoint. I want to win a title and bring back everybody.
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Again, this is why you are a clown.

You're taking the most basic team performance stat possible and just projecting on to it what you think.

The Jazz are +13.7 points per 100 this year with Conley on the court vs off.

The Jazz are -4.2 with Donovan on vs off this year.

If you flipped those stats, I'm sure as hell you would be bringing it up as a mark against Conley and why he should be traded or benched immediately.
 
Filling out our roster with minimum guys and giving Mike a contract at 2 years and 45M in total creates $100M in luxury tax the next two years. We gave up a second round pick to net maybe $1M in the Tucker deal... maybe less. Please don't tell me Ryan will just cut that check.

If we signed a one year stop gap center at one year $7M this year and ducked the tax it would save over $70M over 3 years. Just ducking the tax this year and getting Favs down a little would save around 15-20M in tax in 2 years.

So when Bogey or JC are offloaded this summer (because Favs is likely not a desirable commodity) or Mike walks because we don't want to pay him... please come here and tell me all about how wise and prudent we are as cap managers.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Again, this is why you are a clown.

You're taking the most basic team performance stat possible and just projecting on to it what you think.

The Jazz are +13.7 points per 100 this year with Conley on the court vs off.

The Jazz are -4.2 with Donovan on vs off this year.

If you flipped those stats, I'm sure as hell you would be bringing it up as a mark against Conley and why he should be traded or benched immediately.
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Mike has been very good and it is different than last year when he got hot. He fits and it works and he's setting up Rudy. It is night and day. Even in the bubble last year he got nuclear hot but I still didn't feel super comfortable with it because it wasn't as smooth as it has been this year.

Mike this year is the guy we thought we were getting. The on/off can be a little inflated because of Rudy but anyone watching should be able to see how big a difference maker he is. His defense has been worlds better too. I will eat all the crow because I'm stoked the way its going now. Bring me your crow...it tastes like Filet Mignon.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Again, this is why you are a clown.

You're taking the most basic team performance stat possible and just projecting on to it what you think.

The Jazz are +13.7 points per 100 this year with Conley on the court vs off.

The Jazz are -4.2 with Donovan on vs off this year.

If you flipped those stats, I'm sure as hell you would be bringing it up as a mark against Conley and why he should be traded or benched immediately.
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Cool. You resorted to name calling. Again. You brilliant mind you. Said it a million times - a person can come up with a stat to support almost any viewpoint.

I want to win games. I want to win playoff series. I want to win a championship. You don't find it a bit bizarre that our team, since the Conley arrival (so this year and last), is the following?

25-8 without Conley
2-2 without Rudy
3-2 without Don

With Conley, we have a 62% win percentage
Without Conley, we have a 76% win percentage

I know the game is much more complicated than wins with/without somebody, but to completely dismiss it (like you are) is more idiotic than being concerned about it (like I have). It's got to be one of the most critical stats that is looked at.
 
LoPo said:
Cool. You resorted to name calling. Again. You brilliant mind you. Said it a million times - a person can come up with a stat to support almost any viewpoint.

I want to win games. I want to win playoff series. I want to win a championship. You don't find it a bit bizarre that our team, since the Conley arrival (so this year and last), is the following?

25-8 without Conley
2-2 without Rudy
3-2 without Don

With Conley, we have a 62% win percentage
Without Conley, we have a 76% win percentage

I know the game is much more complicated than wins with/without somebody, but to completely dismiss it (like you are) is more idiotic than being concerned about it (like I have). It's got to be one of the most critical stats that is looked at.
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No, not really. That offers no context at all. We can completely dismiss it unless you really think the Jazz are better off without an All-Star PG. If you think that, just say so.
 
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