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The handwringing over Gobert's new contract was so overwrought.

framer

Well-Known Member

Jrue Holiday agrees to 4-year, $160 million extension!!​

Are you kidding me? He's 30, and the third option on that team. If we live in a world where Milwaukee is willing to do that, it changes the calculus of what the Jazz are going to have to do going forward.

Fortunately, with the new TV contract coming up, the last three years of Rudy's deal will be a bargain for what he is giving us. This also signals that there might not be a lot of fear of the repeater tax with the new contract coming.
 

Jrue Holiday agrees to 4-year, $160 million extension!!​

Are you kidding me? He's 30, and the third option on that team. If we live in a world where Milwaukee is willing to do that, it changes the calculus of what the Jazz are going to have to do going forward.

Fortunately, with the new TV contract coming up, the last three years of Rudy's deal will be a bargain for what he is giving us. This also signals that there might not be a lot of fear of the repeater tax with the new contract coming.
Jrue Holiday having a monster season.

People got to stop living in this fantasy land where every player gets paid the exact right amount in relation to their value to every other player. It's just not going to happen, especially with the max contract rules in place.
 
Jrue Holiday having a monster season.

People got to stop living in this fantasy land where every player gets paid the exact right amount in relation to their value to every other player. It's just not going to happen, especially with the max contract rules in place.
Exactly. People get paid what the market will bear. We didn't want to lose Mitchell so we paid him enough so he didn't feel he needed to try the market. Same happened with holiday. That's just the way it works.
 
Jrue Holiday having a monster season.

People got to stop living in this fantasy land where every player gets paid the exact right amount in relation to their value to every other player. It's just not going to happen, especially with the max contract rules in place.

Bucks got 3 guys on a max contract now, 135 million between them. It becomes obvious that the Pelican's weren't ready to go there, even though they have Zion under a controlled contract. Is the repeater tax now necessary to compete at an elite level?
 
Gobert has a superstar impact. His contract should have been a no-brainer to every Jazz fan.
 
Gobert has a superstar impact. His contract should have been a no-brainer to every Jazz fan.
Exactly, and the fact he didn't take the entire supermax just provided additional flexibility. He is definitely worth his contract.
 
For Rudy it all comes down to the playoffs. If he can be dominant in the playoffs then he is worth the contract. So far in his career in the playoffs he hasn't stepped up and dominated like you want to see from elite players. I don't expect him to outplay guys like Jokic and Anthony Davis but he needs to step up and come close to those guys. In the playoffs we need a consistent 18 and 15 from Rudy for us to have a real chance of winning a title.
 
For Rudy it all comes down to the playoffs. If he can be dominant in the playoffs then he is worth the contract. So far in his career in the playoffs he hasn't stepped up and dominated like you want to see from elite players. I don't expect him to outplay guys like Jokic and Anthony Davis but he needs to step up and come close to those guys. In the playoffs we need a consistent 18 and 15 from Rudy for us to have a real chance of winning a title.
Rudy hasn't really been the problem in our playoff games. Shooting has.
 
Yes and no.

Handwringing is absolutely valid for how cataclysmic the ramifications will be for the repeater tax (don't fool yourselves that the franchise that shed a 2nd round pick to get rid of Rayjon Tucker to save a couple $100k is suddenly gonna be stoked to lose $50 million in tax over three years IF they were to keep the team together [they won't]).

The handwringing over RUDY's salary specifically is/was overwrought. Criticism and concern should be first placed on signing a hobbled, backup big - with no ball skills, and hard-capped on his minutes contribution - to the full MLE. We'll be lucky if the Jazz can keep Conley for a half-decent rate and then be able to offload Favors without jettisoning more picks (probably the next 2nd rounder they have in 2069).
 
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Yes and no.

Handwringing is absolutely valid for how cataclysmic the ramifications will be for the repeater tax (don't fool yourselves that the franchise that shed a 2nd round pick to get rid of Rayjon Tucker to save a couple $100k is suddenly gonna be stoked to lose $50 million in tax over three years IF they were to keep the team together [they won't]).

The handwringing over RUDY's salary specifically is/was overwrought. Criticism and concern should be first placed on signing a hobbled, backup big - with no ball skills, and hard-capped on his minutes contribution - to the full MLE. We'll be lucky if the Jazz can keep Conley for a half-decent rate and then be able to offload Favors without jettisoning more picks (probably the next 2nd rounder they have in 2069).
Speaking of handwringing; I’m in this weird place where I hope Donovan really figures it out but want him to miss an All-NBA selection cuz that raise in his salary is the difference in having a legit rotation player or not. Would be very bad for the franchise moving forward.

Just being real.

That being said, it will be hard to gripe if all of these extravagancies yield a ring.
 
Yes and no.

Handwringing is absolutely valid for how cataclysmic the ramifications will be for the repeater tax (don't fool yourselves that the franchise that shed a 2nd round pick to get rid of Rayjon Tucker to save a couple $100k is suddenly gonna be stoked to lose $50 million in tax over three years IF they were to keep the team together [they won't]).

The handwringing over RUDY's salary specifically is/was overwrought. Criticism and concern should be first placed on signing a hobbled, backup big - with no ball skills, and hard-capped on his minutes contribution - to the full MLE. We'll be lucky if the Jazz can keep Conley for a half-decent rate and then be able to offload Favors without jettisoning more picks (probably the next 2nd rounder they have in 2069).

I agree with all of this. The cap management was so sloppy. At one point, it looked like the money moves were being made to stay under the tax...and then it looked like they were made to stay under the hard cap...and then back. I and many others had this assumption that there was a plan behind all of this and the Jazz were setting the stage for something. But in reality they were were just clueless making money moves that had barely any significance. They didn't come close to ducking the tax and didn't make a move that require extra space under the hard cap.

If the Jazz weren't "well respected" in the media, and by that I mean friends with media members, they would have been laughed at.
 
I agree with all of this. The cap management was so sloppy. At one point, it looked like the money moves were being made to stay under the tax...and then it looked like they were made to stay under the hard cap...and then back. I and many others had this assumption that there was a plan behind all of this and the Jazz were setting the stage for something. But in reality they were were just clueless making money moves that had barely any significance. They didn't come close to ducking the tax and didn't make a move that require extra space under the hard cap.

If the Jazz weren't "well respected" in the media, and by that I mean friends with media members, they would have been laughed at.
Or they were doing what the opportunities presented at the time which is continually changing. Doesn't mean there wasn't a plan. The notion that the same front office who managed the cap with exactness for years suddenly become sloppy makes no sense. What changed was a new owner is who much more opportunistic and willing to ebb a flow and new options emerge.
 
Speaking of handwringing; I’m in this weird place where I hope Donovan really figures it out but want him to miss an All-NBA selection cuz that raise in his salary is the difference in having a legit rotation player or not. Would be very bad for the franchise moving forward.

Just being real.

That being said, it will be hard to gripe if all of these extravagancies yield a ring.
Completely agree on Donovan. I have had the same thought but figured it was sacred ground. And if we get a ring then who cares.
 
Or they were doing what the opportunities presented at the time which is continually changing. Doesn't mean there wasn't a plan. The notion that the same front office who managed the cap with exactness for years suddenly become sloppy makes no sense. What changed was a new owner is who much more opportunistic and willing to ebb a flow and new options emerge.

In this hypothetical theory where the Jazz did what they did because they can spend all the money in the world, why did they spend so many picks to save cash? As low as 100k~ to dump Tucker. If they got the green light to spend whatever they want, they probably shouldn't have traded so many picks to save money without even getting under the tax.
 
Speaking of handwringing; I’m in this weird place where I hope Donovan really figures it out but want him to miss an All-NBA selection cuz that raise in his salary is the difference in having a legit rotation player or not. Would be very bad for the franchise moving forward.

Just being real.

That being said, it will be hard to gripe if all of these extravagancies yield a ring.
If I was a team executive of another team I’d be pumping up other teams guys with these escalators in their deals... it’s weird that contracts can be changed based on how media folks vote on things. He’d likely be 3rd team all nba which is occasionally wonky and will reward winning imo. I could see it coming down to like Booker or DM. DM has been great the past month or so.

I’m fine with him getting his money... Rudy too... it’s the other salary that will end up being the issue.
 
I'd assume that if someone told Jazz management we were good for the 1 seed this season, they would have made different decisions. I mean I don't think they were seeing that possibilty earlier this year. If you get the 1 seed you are all in.
 
In this hypothetical theory where the Jazz did what they did because they can spend all the money in the world, why did they spend so many picks to save cash? As low as 100k~ to dump Tucker. If they got the green light to spend whatever they want, they probably shouldn't have traded so many picks to save money without even getting under the tax.
Bruh they changed their mind... it happens all the time... teams look to aggressively cut spending when they are right at the tax and burn seconds to do it and then change their mind to get meaningless vets... or sometimes they mess up teh maths... either way nothing to see here... we will spend into infinity. Don’t try to predict what the front office will do based on their past actions like those mean anything... today is a new day and tomorrow is an even newer day... why worry about what we did yesterday.
 
I'd assume that if someone told Jazz management we were good for the 1 seed this season, they would have made different decisions. I mean I don't think they were seeing that possibilty earlier this year. If you get the 1 seed you are all in.
I really think they just messed up the tax math. Nothing they have done since the offseason screams to me that now they are all in. Maybe they had planned to move JC or Bojan or Mike during the season to duck the tax... but if they were planning that why spend the full MLE to plug your biggest weakness.

The all in moves were made in the offseason... which would have required some confidence that this is who we could be. Next offseason is the acid test... we have 25 games plus a playoff in between now and then and it may end up playing out where the next choices we make are obvious. Like win a title then bring the whole team back... guy gets hurt then maybe you cut salary. Where it gets tough is if we get beat in the second round in a tough series against a team that goes to the finals... does Ryan open up the vault or call some rich tech bros to help with the spend? Or do we have a small pivot?

Im no longer going to worry about it and am just gonna enjoy what might be the best season we have had in a long time. Might be the best season we have in the next 5-10 years too.
 
If I was a team executive of another team I’d be pumping up other teams guys with these escalators in their deals... it’s weird that contracts can be changed based on how media folks vote on things. He’d likely be 3rd team all nba which is occasionally wonky and will reward winning imo. I could see it coming down to like Booker or DM. DM has been great the past month or so.

I’m fine with him getting his money... Rudy too... it’s the other salary that will end up being the issue.
To connect a few different issues we're been talking about, yesterday I was explaining to my dad Quin's tendency to Thibbs guys unless there's some big statistical accomplishment on the line. He stated that perhaps those guys have incentives in their contracts for things like triple-doubles, and perhaps Quin has an incentive in his contract to keep that from happening.

That statement may have solved the answer to the universe.
 
To connect a few different issues we're been talking about, yesterday I was explaining to my dad Quin's tendency to Thibbs guys unless there's some big statistical accomplishment on the line. He stated that perhaps those guys have incentives in their contracts for things like triple-doubles, and perhaps Quin has an incentive in his contract to keep that from happening.

That statement may have solved the answer to the universe.
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