I wonder what he means by major changes?
Does Joe have to start?
- Thread starter Rubashov
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I wonder what he means by major changes?
Handlogten's Heros
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He was actually better as a bench player last year than as a starter. I think he just needs a solid pick and roll partner to be effective and Whiteside and Joe has not worked. Maybe you run it with Rudy Gay as the roll man? I don't expect Whiteside to play a ton in the postseason and think those minutes we go small. Although we haven't tried it at all yet... Whiteside has been great so I'm not sure you want to "bench" him but some strategic rest to try small ball seems appropriate. Just don't want him to check out.
I think the Conley, Donovan, Joe, Bogey, Rudy lineup is great in appropriate doses but has some rebounding issues... would almost rather get to a lineup where Bogey is out and Rudy Gay is in that spot. Perimeter defense will be rough though. I just am not sure what the solutions are... we have a lot of really good, but limited pieces.
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I think its more Bogey, JC, type changes but I would not rule out something bigger. I think Joe retires after this year so that is already going to be one change.
Are you sure about that? I know his scoring was quite a bit higher when he started last season and likely his assists and rebounds as well. I'm not sure about his shooting numbers but I wouldn't be surprised if they were better when he started.
When I hear the words "major changes" it makes me think of Rudy, Donovan, Bogey and Conley. Will be interesting to see what happens. Not that they'll all be gone but that one or two of them could be.
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Yes. His overall volume was higher because when you start you play more minutes but his TS% was 65% as a starter and an insane 70% as a bench player.
To me this conversation has never been about whether Joe is starting or not, it's who he's playing with and how much he touches the ball. Joe is best when he gets to touch the ball. It makes him more active on defense and also more aggressive as an off ball shooter. If he doesn't get involved he becomes disengaged on both ends.
When Joe starts, he's usually replacing Conley or Mitchell. Obviously he's going to get more of the ball in the starting lineup, but he's also going to be a main ballhandler when the other player is resting. There's a reason why the Jazz have been able to perform so well when someone has been out, it's because Joe gets a bigger role and Joe is really freaking good when he's involved. Even though Quin may not see it this way, I think he's on a different level than Bogey, Royce, and JC. He should have the first priority to finish games.
So for me it isn't about whether he starts or not, it's how we keep him engaged and have enough touches for him. You know what I'm going to say next....
When Joe starts, he's usually replacing Conley or Mitchell. Obviously he's going to get more of the ball in the starting lineup, but he's also going to be a main ballhandler when the other player is resting. There's a reason why the Jazz have been able to perform so well when someone has been out, it's because Joe gets a bigger role and Joe is really freaking good when he's involved. Even though Quin may not see it this way, I think he's on a different level than Bogey, Royce, and JC. He should have the first priority to finish games.
So for me it isn't about whether he starts or not, it's how we keep him engaged and have enough touches for him. You know what I'm going to say next....
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Hell no. Ingles has been one of the worst defenders on the team. Replacing a plus defender who is overtaxed with a player who is unable to carry any defensive burden is not what is best for the Jazz. This whole pandering to Joe has to stop.
Also the last 2 games weren't because Ingles, it was because the team got embarrassed and are sending a message. The high will pass.
Also the last 2 games weren't because Ingles, it was because the team got embarrassed and are sending a message. The high will pass.
I think he should, and then should be part of that 3 man rotation with Conley/Rudy that gets pulled out early and then played in the late 1st/early 2nd. That's pretty much what Quin tries to do with him anyway coming off the bench, so I guess it doesn't matter all that much, but I would like to see him get those few extra minutes at the start with Rudy to maybe get Rudy a few more early touches that get him more involved with the offense.
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I think there is a slim chance it would be Rudy. I like Tony but I think he kinda exaggerates in a way. He might view a JC trade as a Major trade. Where we would see it as re-tooling. I think if we fail there is a 10% chance we trade Rudy in an attempt to build something long-term around Donovan. Everything is on the table at that point. I don't think its the right move... if you do that I think you should go all the way and rebuild... like when we "re-tooled" after trading Deron. I think there is too much good to make a MAJOR, trade Don or Rudy, move.
SoberasHotRod
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Did people not watch the lineups against the Blazers without Conley or Ingles? It was ugly. The results were a little better in the second half, but mostly due to some crazy shot making from Donovan.
If we're moving to a no Conley or Ingles lineup, we should take Hassan out and move to a completely spread floor to give all those iso players as much space as possible. The defense would be terrible, but maybe they learn over time.
If we're moving to a no Conley or Ingles lineup, we should take Hassan out and move to a completely spread floor to give all those iso players as much space as possible. The defense would be terrible, but maybe they learn over time.
The hardest part is going to be keeping Donovan and Rudy happy. If we re-tool we'll likely take a step back for a year or two and I don't think either one of them has any interest in doing that. I think both guys want to be in the hunt for a championship every single season. Things could get ugly.
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This year is it basically... then we either gradually descend or do a full pivot. A re-tool could work but you have to nail everything and get a lot of luck.
This is the year, but hey, it's okay if we just take our time on Oni or Forrest or whatever... no need to rush... just be patient.
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I am not sure they know that this is it. I think they feel they can pivot around Donovan or they will find some justification for why we fail... so they ride it a year or two too long.
I don't think Bogy and JC would be a good fit together and I don't think Bogey would be cool with coming off the bench.
I also don't think Quin will follow my suggestion lol
NAOS
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If this is true about Bogie, then we might as well trade him now. His career will be long—due to shooting—and so his move to the bench is inevitable. And the move is pretty soon, imo. This year or next for optimal, consistent impact from him.
SoberasHotRod
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You could be right about Bogie needing to be a bench contributor, I'm guessing mostly off of projections based on guys his age? I personally haven't visually seen any falling off from bogey that has me concerned.